#147: From Vienna, to PiccyBot, to Kerala.

Foreign.

Welcome to blind guys chat, where oren o'. Nemeal.

Hello.

Yang bloom.

Hello.

And mohammed lashear.

Hi there.

Talk about the a to z of life.

Well, hello, ladies and gentlemen. You're very welcome to episode 147 of Blind Guys Chat. Like the Bulgarian broadcasters, we are stunned to see that the weather has turned ugly again. Certainly in Ireland it is cold, it is dreary, it is wet and I've had enough of it.

And windy. And windy. Don't you forget.

You know what? Oren and I was camping last weekend.

When he got back home, they had to put him in the microwave.

Yeah.

To warm him back up.

I want to put him in the tumbleware.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But let's talk about this for a second, Jan, because the, the way that you, Muhammad and myself understand this is that the reason you were taking. You were taken away is because you're wonderful family.

Yeah.

We're on a birthday treat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They did very well. And, and it was a really nice street shows you how much they love you. Yeah.

Yes.

I am so blessed. I'm so blessed. You know, it's very, very nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had actually good food by the way, because, you know, we didn't allow ourselves cooking because that was too much hassle, you know, to pack it all in the car etc and to. Yeah. To grab all the stuff. So we went nice to nice restaurants, etc so it was very, very good. But the first night, guys, it was too cold. Yeah. I don't know. But sleeping when it's cold, it is not nice at all. The second night I knew. So I put on my fleece, I put on my jacket, I put on double socks and I was wearing everything. And then I slept so well. And then Mo. Sometimes, you know, because with your sleeping problems or probably. How do you say that, but I experience that sometimes also that you wake up and you feel still sleepy. You know, you. You feel not really that you have all the time. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Then, then I can recommend sleep in, in the tent because I got up and I was fit. My gosh.

You know, it actually happens to me all the time. Like I will wake up at 4:30.

Oh.

I'll be like, no, no. But it's 4:30, I should go back to sleep. And my body is like, no, no, you're awake. Okay, good luck.

Hey, are you then not telling your genes? Yeah, yeah. Are you not a dairy farmer then? In a way getting up to milk the cows, Milking up The cows. Yeah, that's always.

I don't have any cows.

No. Search for them. You know, I think you can smell them as well. I think I.

True, true. I'll go find some. Yeah, clearly I'm a dairy farmer.

But it was actually nice and it was very good also to, to set up the tent. It. And it was. I like it to be honest. You know, and then when you look at the tent or when you feel it's so nice tight, you know, straight up, etc, it was really. Yeah, I like that. And to sit in front of your tent, have a coffee and a beer was ah, excellent. Yeah. 0% okay.

Yeah.

You just saying that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, of course he's just saying that.

But Bulgaria won. Oren, I. I learned Eurovision.

Yes, Bulgaria won. Nobody seemed to realize that it was any good of a song. I don't even think Kevin Sherwin told us it was a good thing. No, Bulgaria just. Well, they again, yet again Israel were in the lead up to. At the beginning. Well, they were still in the lead all the way through and the last audience vote to come in was Bulgaria and Israel were. I think there were maybe 200 points in the lead or something. I'm not. No, I think they needed. Bulgaria needed 140 votes to win and they got more than that. They got several hundred more than that. Now Claudia said something very interesting today, so maybe it may not be this, but anyway, I'm ashamed almost that for the second year running Israel have been. Have almost won the competition. Now I was talking to Kevin Sherwin before today, earlier today about this and we've actually both had this, had the same idea which was why not let Israel win and then see what happens? Who would, which countries would then say well we're not going to Israel next year if Israel are hosting, so maybe, maybe that's the way it should have gone. But anyway, Claudia was saying something very interesting about Finland.

Yeah, I came across a chap, a Finnish guy on Instagram who said he didn't understand what had happened with the Eurovision because Israel were doing so well and yet in if you look at the all of like Spotify, you can look at, you know, the statistics, what music is in, you know, what are the top 50 songs that people in your country are listening to. And apparently of the top 50 songs that that Finnish people were listening to, 12 of them were from the Eurovision and not one of them was Israel, the Israeli song. But the country the. The Finnish audience vote gave 12 points to Israel. So how is that even possible? If they're not even listening to it.

Well, I mean, we heard it last year and not from the usual suspects. Right. It always attracts these theories, these conspiracy theories.

Yeah.

But actually, last year it was almost, it was very widely suspected that Israel was doing something to make the, to make the vote go their way.

They did get a telling off by the EBU the week before because apparently the broadcast. I don't know if it was the broadcaster. I presume it was the broadcaster encouraged on social media, encouraged people to vote multiple times for Israel.

But surely the system wouldn't allow you do that. Or does it?

No, it does, it does.

Oh, it does, it does.

So they got a, they got a telling off from the evus, you know, basically. Stop.

I learned that as well for all Sweden.

I don't, I think they got nothing. They. Yeah, and they nearly got knocked out, apparently, in the semi finals.

Wow.

Okay.

Got.

They won enough times already. I, I, I listened to the Bulgarian song and it was awful. I don't understand. Whatever.

I haven't heard it yet, actually.

No, me neither.

I don't know.

It's a terrible song. It just is. I'm sorry, I, I don't mind the Bulgarians at all, but the song was just,

you're not gonna buy it.

Horrible.

But I believe the atmosphere was not in Vienna. It was not Eurovision at all.

I mean, in fairness to Vienna, it's a bit too classy for that kind of messing, you know?

Yeah. I mean, I'm just thinking of what, what Mozart would have been thinking of, like the Bulgarian song.

Oh, gosh. There you go. That's a whole.

Get out of my city.

Yeah.

Get, get.

Ha.

Email us on Blind Guys chat dot com. Drop us a line and come along. Email us on blindguyschat.com. drop us a line and come along. Email us on blindguyschat.com we'll read it out loud in the song.

Ladies and gentlemen, time for our guest, all the Way. Oh, sorry, you were going to do.

You're going.

Yes, I was going to say the name. Okay, let's try that again.

Yeah. Now, ladies and gentlemen, time for our

guest, Martine from the spec.

That was not AI generated.

No, it was not. It was mode generated.

It was mo generated.

Yeah.

Martin is currently living in exile in India because he was arrested in Japan three years ago for hitting a panda bear in the face. They were having a fight over some bamboo. He is living secretly. Oh, no, it's not secret anymore. He's in India. Yeah. So we'll just.

You keep On. You keep on, you know, you keep on publicizing people.

What's that? I have to find yet and yet another place now.

Yeah. For 25 years, he's hiding there, and now one.

So one interview. Okay. Panda bear was only three years ago. Don't worry.

Yeah, it's been a while.

You're very welcome to the podcast. You are the creator of an app we have been using in the last few weeks called, if I have it right, pickybot. First of all, tell us, because we have not asked this question in a good while, but you are in a different country to myself. Jan and Mo, you are in India at the moment. What is the weather like in India?

Yeah, well, in. In my place, It's. It's always 30 degrees. It doesn't matter which time of the year it is. It's either it. It rains or it doesn't rain, but it is always 30 degrees. It's not. It doesn't rain.

And Jan is going camping, and it's 10 degrees here, so he's gonna have fun and rain and whatever. Enjoying it already.

Ah, yeah.

Okay.

Please send some nice weather over. That would be nice.

Yes, please. That would be good.

No, it's. It's a great place here, this. Nice tropical beaches and it is. It's. Yeah, well, it's. It's a. It's a bit of. Well, I call it India Light in the sense that this. It's not as extreme as other parts of. Of India. This. There is hardly. Well, hardly any real poverty. This. It's just a more pleasant place to be where the infrastructure is also good. It's a bit of an unexplored piece of India. Well, as far as tourists will usually go to north India, and they will go to the Taj Mahal and Agra and maybe see Bombay or Mumbai, but they don't often come this side, which is a shame.

So where exactly are you?

It's in Kerala, this absolute south point of India.

Kerala.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. It's a lovely spot.

And. And it's also funny, Oren, you remember our interview with Sabre, you know, from Braille, with her borders, Martine? Well, Well, I think 20k from you, she's living.

Right, Right. And then somehow. Somehow she. They've been here for 21 years. I've been here for 25 years, and we've never met. We're going to. To. To change that tomorrow. This.

This is really embarrassing.

Yeah, Braille without borders. That's really good. So this is also breaking up a border. That's really nice. You are not visually impaired yourself. You are managing or the owner of a software company has sparkling and sparkling apps. That's a complete name. That's true. Can you explain a little bit more? How did you start with what is the current status?

Yeah, well, as a company, sparkling apps, we've always been working on recognition of either text or audio or license plates. And then when the image recognition became hot or at least 12 years ago, I created an app called Talking Goggles and it was just for, okay, we create something that is nice to speak out images and didn't really have the, well, visually impaired in mind for that. But then the feedback of that app was so impressive that so many people said, okay, this is, this has really helped. And now I can suddenly see what is in my fridge. Now I can suddenly see what is on my washing machine. All these things which were 12 years ago was rather a breakthrough and it really made me realize that it was really a very useful application to create. Now we even took it a bit further. Even at that time we took it to the smart watches. Those were hot at some points Samsung had these smart watches with cameras. So we had even had people walking around with watches and then the watch would tell them what was it. And that was 12 years ago then. Yeah, about three years ago the whole AI revolution happened basically. And then it's like, oh, yeah, well, yeah, don't we do the same thing of making. Well, now we can really do a better description of images and then take that further. Describe videos, describe audio streams of video streams. And then, yeah, in that sense pickybot started to take shape and the feedback was again very, very, very good. So it's been a pleasure to, to develop that and to keep, keep improving it.

I must say, pickybot is an amazing app. I use it to primarily actually for videos, not for images, but for videos. And it, I mean through Gemini and probably other other models too. It does a fantastic job of describing videos and.

And also there had the latest development also with opening up the SDK from Meta.

Right, right, right. Yeah. I've got a group of testers working with the metaglasses. And the thing is though, right now it's still in beta. So both the streaming video, that's more from Google or now OpenAI is also coming or something. But Meta, it's all in beta. So you basically you put it all together and you know, oh, it's amazing. It's amazing. But then to actually have an end product is still a challenge for the

people who don't know what Piggybot is. And of course we've been talking about that a lot, but maybe it's good to go back to the base and see what the app can do. So Martijn, can you explain to us what piggybot does and what its unique selling point is as compared to the other AI based interpreters out there?

Right. Well, the main thing for. Well, what I always had in mind for Peakybot is that it is. It's very flexible. So you can. Yeah, you really throw any type of media edit and it will. Yeah, process it. So either for instance, when you are on social media and you have an. Or on a TikTok video and you share that to Piggybot, it will describe that video or if you have a PDF somewhere and you share it to pikibot, it will describe that PDF. And the flexibility is the selling point actually. Especially if you go on the Pro version of PickyBot, you have these 13 different models that you can choose from, different voices, different. You can merge video with your description and then yeah, you have a result there. There is a lot of flexibility in the app. It's also available as a WhatsApp service and it is available as an. On the Mac. And this. Yeah, well, try to. Well, the idea is to have it anywhere and when you need any media described. Yeah, you pick both.

How about Windows? Is it available on Windows or. Not yet.

No, not yet.

I heard you speaking about a Pro version. Is there a kind of subscription also necessary for it? What is your business model?

The base version is just running on ads. It's running. It's free to have images described and videos described. But if you want to do more, and I say all this flexibility of changing a different model or changing a different voice or. Well, there's a lot more options actually hidden in the app for these things. You have to subscribe and it's. Yeah. Then it's either $3 a month or you do a one time payment of $25 and then you've unlocked it for life.

Okay.

The Pro version is more like. Yeah, for instance we have some models like the Picky Bot Mix model. That's a nice one because it will take three different AIs and it will present an image to all three of them and it will then take the common denominator. I mean it will say, okay, if OpenAI says there are three people, if Gemini says there are two people and if anthropic says there are four people, then we say there are people, we don't give a number. So in that Sense just to avoid hallucination to high degree and really. And as the models get better anyhow, hallucinations are almost eliminated. All the time we have been trying to tweak it so that it is the best for the

voiceover.

For voiceover there are apps like omnidescribe and videoscribe that will create audio description like tracks for video that you can then run alongside the video. And you of course in Pikibot NIS this works very well because I've used it myself on videos where there's no talking. You have the merging of the video with your description. Are you thinking of something like an audio description track so that for example your voice is not talking over talking within the video and you can just produce audio description for videos.

Well even in Pikibot you can set the volume level of the original video and the video audio and the the voiceover video of audio so that you can, you can mix that already this. So that's also another feature in the pro version and the, the only. The other problem though we have is, is in the synchronization. That is we've worked on a lot of. We're given a lot of time to, to try to really split up the video and to describe every element properly and it's really well in sync with each other. But it is possible. But it is also costly and yeah you know our pricing model we really can't, can't afford to put all these the high end models and do multiple processes of video and then to still make it economical. Ideally you would, you would. You can. You should be able to take half an hour video and then okay process it and and then get the result. But that is not really what, what is going to work for pixiebot.

What's the reaction so far by users to the responses they're getting for images that they are putting through pixiebot?

I mean just yeah that's one of the reasons why I do what I do and especially. Well last well then initially when the video descriptions came out people came back to me like oh suddenly my, my phone instead of taking up space it has. It's now turned my phone into a whole world of memories and it's completely different. And, and yeah. People. Well in general the.

Yeah.

Well the users really love it. Of course there's always okay it is great but and then there is there. There's always points for improvement but that's with any app I guess.

Yeah.

Yeah. Pickybot is very. I've made it really a point to, to make sure that it runs on any language. So that's another thing. Especially in South America it's very popular. And okay. And then they. Yeah, the Spanish and Portuguese speaking communities, they are. They will tell me like oh no, no, this is not pronounced properly in this Portuguese version or this. And yeah, it's another challenge to make sure that that works worldwide properly. Another thing is that. Another thing that we're facing is the. Sometimes some countries are kind of partly blocked by either Google or Microsoft and then things don't work. 100 okay. So then if you. Yeah, we have some Iranian users that have trouble now in particular, I can't imagine. But also, also Turkish. Also Turkish people. I don't know what is going on there. There's a. So maybe this site. Not. Not sure.

Can you do it also already in the live mode then? Is that also possible?

That is what we are. Yeah. It will be coming in the next update. Oh. The problem there, there is though, it is. It's again, it's pricey. It's. And I won't be able to do that for a flat fee. So I have to find another way to. To package that. And it works.

Really.

Yeah. That live AI is great for the glasses as well. That's mainly what my Meta SDK users are testing. It's the live mode. It's a development. You see that initially the big guys OpenAI Google Anthropic, they were very eager to give credits for developers and try to get. To lure everybody in and. But now every new model, you see that the prices go up and go up and go up. It's going to be an issue. And like I said, having your own keys and then paying for the credits, maybe that's actually a more practical way. But on the other hand it does require a bit more technical expertise to get it all done. And that's. Yeah. And. And that is another thing that I found. I was a bit, honestly a bit disappointed in the, in the numbers. In the sense that I would always think that oh, you get. Yeah. You say, oh there are hundreds of millions of blind people and visually impaired people around the world. But yeah, if you look at the, the community or reaching the. Those. Those people, it is not so easy. I've made other apps in the past which had easily had millions and millions of downloads. And that is not the case for Piggybots. And in that sense it's still a niche.

It's difficult to get it then affordable for you or profitable for you as a developer in that way.

Are you looking Martijn into open source models such as Gemma4 and maybe Deepseek running.

Definitely, definitely. I mean, it's easy to run TMF4 on the Android phones, on the better Android phones at least. But on iOS it's still. Most of the Pixiebot users are still using older iOS devices and then Gemma 4 won't run on them and you have to download quite a few gigabytes before it runs. But it's the next step also, because it's really like Gemma 4 will give the same results as what OpenAI would have given two or three years ago, but then offline instead of online and on your phone.

It's for marketing.

Yeah. Right, okay.

And do you experience it also in the. In the response then that it is faster since it is local, or do you really see an improvement in that way?

No, I think it's not really faster at the moment because your phone just has to process everything and yeah, yeah, the poor processor has a difficult job there. But I mean, it's getting hot right now.

You get a hot smoke.

Yeah, right, right, right, right, right. But the main thing is of course, privacy. I mean, that is yet another point of contention in the models. One of them, I mean, I'm not a particularly fan of Grok, but it does describe everything.

So Martijn, you were mentioning like other apps and you were mentioning a translator device that went viral in Japan. I'm wondering, is Picky Bot at the moment your only project or are you cooking up other interesting things as well?

Now at the moment it really has my focus and I'm basically to be able to pay the bills. The earlier apps also will continue to run and even. I mean I've got a simple app like and a call recorder app and it's doing great and it is. Or an upscale AI app and it's doing great. But I don't really have to do anything there. My focus is really on pickybot.

It is really interesting and we really thank you for making all this effort, Martijn, and that our world is getting more Expo or that we get to see more in our world.

It's very cool to live in this time.

Yeah.

So if people want to know more about Piggybot, where should they go to find out first?

Yeah, pickybot.com is the first step and then you can. Well, actually, honestly, if you Google piggybot, as long as you spell it right, because that's exactly.

I wanted to make that also. Yeah.

Voice over, call it pixiebot and then if you start typing it pixiebot. I even went so far as to. To register the domain pixiebot because it was. But. But that's. Oh, it's usually just. Just go to the regular name, Pikybot P I, C C Y B O T dot com. There's also. Yeah, there's a Facebook groups, there is an a WhatsApp community. But as long as you. Yeah, you Google Piggybot, you will get there.

We're enjoying using the app so far, so thanks for bringing it into the world and we'll put the information on our show notes when we publish the show. And thanks for talking to us about the app and really look forward to seeing what's coming up in the next few years for you.

Good luck with your 10 degrees.

Thank you, Martijn. Thank you. I really feel.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will go for a nice cup of coffee. Okay, bye. Bye.

Yo, Clodagh, got the inbox. She's the email queen reading out your messages. She's the go between tips, tricks, complaints, suggestions, blind guys chat, answering your questions. Yanmo, Oren, they're bringing the facts. Hit us with your wisdom or your wise crack attack.

Oh,

ready to reply. Cloth that reads it out loud. No message too sly so hit that keyboard, let your fingers tap we're waiting on your voice in this funky rap.

Oh, I read.

It's a bit long though, isn't it?

It's fine. The more cheese, the better.

It is quite cheesy, in fairness. It is. Yes, yes, but I. Yeah, lovely.

Yeah.

So, yeah, you want an email, I'm guessing. We have an email from Moira in Kerry. How are you, south of Ireland? She's asking about accessibility at GAA matches, which we're gonna have to explain to the lads.

Athletic Association.

Yes, indeed. She says, hi, lads, how are you? I'm. I'm a huge GA supporter. But attending live matches can be difficult because there's so little commentary or orientation help in stadiums. Have you heard of any clubs doing accessibility particularly well? Thanks, Moira. Now, Oren.

Yeah, it's all for you.

This is. This is very.

Yeah. Now, this is, in fairness, just to explain what GAA is. It encompasses actually a few sports within Ireland. So there's Gaelic football.

What is specific for Gaelic football?

The rules are different. You can lift, you can lift, you can lift the ball and you can hold it with your hands. You can throw it, you can kick it, you can puck it.

Really?

Yeah. It's a fast game, isn't it?

It's faster than you know in all of them.

But you see different rules but it's also. It's very fast. It's good. It's good fun. And then there's hurling, which has got a kind of a flat ash stick and that's an incredibly fast game and really skilled. And then there's Komogi, which is the female version of hurling. And there's also ladies football. And there's handball as well, isn't there, Oren?

There is handball, yeah.

Yeah. Not as popular perhaps, but you know,

very popular in Germany.

Handball it is actually. Yeah. But not GAA handball, Denmark as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I'll try and answer it as quickly as I can and say that I don't know of any club offer live audio description in.

In.

In regional stadiums, but I do know that the headquarters in Dublin, Croke park, they introduced some audio description commentary in that. In that stadium only. And it's as far as I know, it's only for the championship matches. So it's basically anything to do with the. There's lots of competitions throughout the year for hurling and football as far as I am aware. You can get live audio description there in the stadium. I don't know anything about was something that. It was certainly something they were going to introduce but I don't think there's much feedback on. On it yet. So. Sorry, Maura, I don't think there's anything available in. In GAA terms in your local club.

Sorry.

And, and, and, and do you have also a GAA accessible games, hurling for the blind? Yeah.

Because it's a really fast game, really.

Oh, hurling is the fastest field sport in the world.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How big is a ball? Do you have a ball as well?

It's likely, yeah. It's called the balls called a slitter and it's quite. What slither?

The slither.

Are you sure that these are not Harry Potter sports?

No.

You're passing off as real.

No, it's a real sport and It's.

With my Nimbus 2000 I can join. You know, I. With my Nimbus 2000 I kick on.

It's brilliant. Next time you come over, Jan, and you might join, we can bring you to Croak park and test out this live ad that they have for the championship matches.

Can we have the BGC team then?

If you got hit by a hurl, you'd know, you know, you. You wouldn't wake up until next Tuesday,

you know, you'd lose your eyesight.

Anyway, folks, that is all we have time for. Thank you very much for listening in and we will see you in how many weeks? I think it's probably two weeks time.

Yeah.

No, two weeks.

Yeah. 14 days. Bye. Bye.

Bye.