#144: Slimy; Weirdo; Stepford wives?

Foreign.

Welcome to blind guys chat, where oren o'.

Nemeal.

Hello.

Yang bloom.

Hello.

And mohammed lashear.

Hi there.

Talk about the a to z of life.

Well, hello, ladies and gentlemen, and you are very welcome to episode 144 of Blind Guys Chat. Thank you very much for joining us. Now, as has become tradition, we're going to go straight into our guest for this week and talk about Eurovision. And there's only one person who can talk about Eurovision.

Only one in the whole.

Only one in the whole planet.

Hang on, I'm doing a great. I'm doing a great intro.

Sorry.

Right.

Oh, sorry.

Are you going to the moon? The man who. The man who puts bum into Bombtastic.

Sorry.

Oh, Mr. Kevin Sherwin.

Hello. This is really short, Kevin.

And you almost talked over that intro, John.

Yeah, it was. I was thinking he's gonna take to the moon and back and around and around, but no, whatever. Okay.

Those poor astronauts.

No, no.

Do you know what I heard at least has heard a bit of good music today on the radio. They were doing interview with a woman in America, an astronaut, talking about the Artemis 3. And before they played in Dark side of the Moon.

Oh, your favorite.

My favorite.

You said good music as if we're about to talk about some bad music. I didn't appreciate it.

I object.

Good bad music. Kevin,

is island going, by the way?

Is it Or Islam Day is not going? No, not going.

We're out on yours.

Yeah, hang on. Hold on a second. Let's. Let's get in order now. Let's go. Yeah, that's why we're paying Kevin all this money, so he can answer these questions, so we can just sit back and relax.

My booking fee goes up every year as well, so.

Yeah, that's true.

Kevin, tell us who of this year's Eurovision. Eurovision 2026. Who is. And you're very welcome, by the way, and thank you for coming to every year to talk to us about Eurovision.

Always a pleasure. Who.

Who is not taking part and in the Eurovision 2026 this year?

And why not? I'm glad you can't see what I'm googling, because I am just googling just to check now, look, there's. There's a historically expert in this. Do you know what? Well, yeah, apart from the countries that you know, haven't been in it recently. So there are countries like Slovakia, they haven't done it for ages. Russia where kicked out a while ago. Of the countries that usually do it, the following are out and are, you know, boycotting so Ireland, Netherlands, Spain, Slovenia and Iceland. And, you know, Spain is a big one because I don't know if you know of the concept of the Big five, which are the countries that put the most money into Eurovision and they automatically go to the Grand Final. They don't have to do the semi finals and Spain is part of those traditionally. So that's the biggest shocker I know. Like, obviously, Ireland most wins. Spain is the biggest player in Eurovision. The. To not be in it this year. It's quite a bold move by them. And Netherlands and Ireland, I would say Slovenia, Iceland, you know, good for them, too. But, like, I kind of expected more maybe. And funnily enough, Portugal were doing their. Their national contest and there were 16 acts and 13 of them said, we will not go to Eurovision if we win this contest. So, like, they were taken part and they were like, we're not going. And one of the three acts who said, we'll go, we won it. So.

Okay.

I think Belgium, too, was Hemming.

And Belgium was also.

Anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah, there was. There was a bit of chat about that. Yeah. So a few countries were teetering. It's ended up that there are going to be, I think, 35 countries going, which is lower than it's been in a few years. So, yeah, 15 per. 15 per semi final.

But I feel proud about it. I feel good about it. And. Come on. It is really.

Yeah.

I'm proud on Spain and on Ireland and on all the countries who didn't go, because it's a shame. It's really.

It's absolutely. Talk about being on the right side of history. Yeah.

Do you understand why it is? Because some people.

That's a good thing. Hey, Claudia.

Yeah. Well done.

Yeah, yeah, well, yeah. So as an act of protest against Israel's continued presence in the contest, these countries were saying, we're not going to. We're not going to take part. There were. There was an expectation, I would say after last year. Last year ended, the final ended. And I. I don't know if I came back on after it, but if it ended in such a tense, horrible way where it looked like Israel were about to win, it turned what's. What should be like a joyful, joyous evening of song and into something that was like, turning into, like something horrific before our eyes. And it just. It was so stressful. And immediately after that, I and a lot of other people were like, well, like, they have to be out. Like they have to be. And of course they were like, oh, the. The e. We're Going to have conversations, there's going to be votes. There was a vote. The vote was basically the EBU introduced a new set of rules aimed at minimizing the extent to which Israel might be able to kind of fix the votes. And that's kind of what happened last year. Like, they had such a huge televote, and so this year. So they had a proposal. They were like, this year, instead of being able to have 20 votes per person, you can only make 10. And also we're bringing back the juries, so that. Because the juries have been gone from semifinals in recent years, and what that means is there'll be less of an emphasis on the televote. So they brought in this stuff and then they said to everybody, do you accept these changes? If not, we go to a vote on whether Israel participate. I think this is how it works. And most broadcasters said, yeah, that sounds fine. So they didn't have to go to the vote of should Israel be in or not. And then as a result of that, various countries, including our own, all of our own, were like, nah, not this year. And so, look, it's. It's April now. This is usually like prime time for getting excited about Eurovision. Me learning all the songs, listening to the playlists, and it's just not happening for me this year. It's not happening.

There's no buzz. Yeah, no, I mean, it's, you know. Yeah, like the contest itself. Yeah. You know, the political stand, I completely get in my support. But, like, I feel sorry for the people who are performing this year because there's no. There is no buzz. There is no kind of excitement.

I don't feel also the temptation to watch, you know, any.

Well, we don't even have the option in Ireland. I don't know, the crack is with your broadcaster, but, like, RT won't. I don't know, showing it here. Do you know, you can watch it on YouTube if you really have to. I actually gonna go. My friend who lives in the UK has invited a few of us to watch it and I feel like I'm, like, sneaking out of the country, you know, under the cloak of darkness, to go and watch the Eurovision Song Contest. I feel like even wanting to watch it. Yeah. But, like, it does bring. It generally brings me a lot of joy and it's. It's a real. It's a real conflicted kind of frame of mind that I'm in. And as it happens, it's the 70th anniversary of the contest, so it's like a big deal.

Yeah.

Our public broadcaster is sort of organized in a weird way. I mean, it's. It's kind of a remnant of the way Dutch society worked in the. In the 50s and before, where we have, like, different broadcasting groups. So there's an evangelical group, there's a Catholic group, there's a socialist group. And one of those groups is normally the one that does Eurovision and that sends the artist. I think it's a socialist one, actually. No Afro throws. Yeah, you're right. No, it's not the one. So afrotrust. But they won't do it this year because they're boycotting. And so instead, actually they will air the contest on television, but it will be the. The broadcasting group that typically does the news. It's called nos. They will do that because they are neutral and so they. And then comment on it. Neutral, but that's it.

Interesting.

Yeah, interesting.

And are the BBC. The BBC are broadcasting it as usual, right?

Oh, yeah. Full steam ahead. Full steam ahead. And I had my own little, like, taste of kind of Euros and excitement. I went to Stockholm a few weeks ago to watch the final of their selection show, so that was my little excitement and I could do that guilt free. And there were some great songs.

Really?

So. So, yeah, pop songwriting, for whatever reason, you know, the. Obviously a tradition since ABBA maybe before, they just come up with some great pop songs. So, like, often. Often times there'll be four or five songs that don't make it to Eurovision that I love. So. And that was my own little. My own little taste of the Eurovision excitement for.

Where will the contest be held?

Actually, it is in Vienna, I want to say.

Another gorgeous place.

Austria.

Yeah, I was kind of poo pooing the songs a little bit before. There are some decent ones. There's some good entries. I've. I've listened to most of them at this stage and there are definitely. There's some good stuff in there, so it'll be a pretty good.

Totally unprepared. Kevin, I'm really sorry, but. But I'm. I'm also part of the boycott.

Yeah, that's absolutely fine. Absolutely fine and completely respectable. Yeah, yeah.

So who are the favorites this year, then? What's the. What are we looking at? Who am I putting me.

It's funny, like, before the songs are selected, the favorites are, like, Sweden, definitely Italy, definitely. France, definitely. There's. There's always, like, assumed countries that are going to do well. And as it turns out, now that all the 35 songs are out, the runaway favorite at the moment is Finland. And it's a song which is in Finnish and it's called Laken, Hayton, Lake and Hin. But according to Eurovisionworld.com it has a winning chance, a 30 winning chance. And the next one down has 11%. So it is definitely the strong favorite. And I've. It feels very kind of classic Eurovision in the sense that it's a duo and it's a guy singing and then a woman playing the violin. And there's like. At least in their national international final, there were flames everywhere and it was all very dramatic in Eurovision, so.

And it's funny because Hardcore, what they used to do, you know, they've really been on stage with hardcore hard rock or whatever, or.

Oh, yeah, that's a hard rock. Hallelujah. Years ago.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, this one, I mean, quite that full on.

I'm not very interested in. In Eurovision, I have to say, even. Even on years, even in years where there isn't a boycott, I typically don't watch, but I remember one year when I did watch because someone else was watching and I was like, well, I might as well watch with them. And I like the Finnish entry back then, too. And it was. That was it again, I think it was called Cha Cha Cha, the song.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

That was fantastic.

I really like that song. That's a pretty good song.

So that was really. That was really good. And it was. A lot of people would say it was robbed that year and it's one of the great second place entries that some people think should have won, for

sure, in my opinion. It should have won. It was very good.

It was, yeah. But that was the year that Lorraine came back, having won previously with her. Her next entry. And it was just.

I didn't like Lorraine's song. I liked her first song, the Issue.

Yeah, yeah.

And. And it was like a massive hit in all of Europe. I like that song, but I didn't

like the second euphoria. Yeah. And the funny thing about Finland this year is, like, generally in Eurovision, the rules are that no instruments should be played live. Like the vocals are live, but instruments never live because it's just. I. Maybe it's just to do with the production element, things going wrong, but there's. They've actually appealed for the woman to be able to play her violin live, because that would just be more impressive, you know, and will be more of a vote winner. The other interesting thing this year is that Australia, after a few years of flopping in the semi finals and really struggling, they have entered a really strong entry called Eclipse by Delta Goodrum. I don't know if you remember that name, but she was. Yeah, she's. She was. She had a decent music career. She started off in Neighbors. She had a good few hits over here. She's got a stunning voice and it's a really good song. The Eurovision fans are always excited at the prospect of a country winning for the first time.

Okay.

Because that's, you know, uncharted territory and

then everyone has to fly to Australia.

Australia. Well, I think they. They nominate a broadcaster to host their behalf or something. But then in the meantime, Eurovision Asia has been announced for later this year, the first one ever. So that's obviously all the Asian countries are going to be taking. Not all of them, but several will be taking part in that.

So Eurovision, it's division.

Yeah, I know, I know, but apparently trademark is known, is. Is owned by someone else. So it's Eurovision Asia. But from a branding point of view, I can kind of understand that. And they tried it with America a few years ago. They tried the American Song Contest, it was called. That was a disaster.

Different states, like.

Different states, yeah. And then this year they announced like a big arena tour around Europe of, like, some of the acts from this year, plus the likes of Johnny Logan and notable other acts from the past.

Isn't it where they make the.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Very soon after announcing, it was canceled and they were like, actually, we're not doing it because the, the ticket sales were dismal. So it's been a rocky. It's been a rocky old road for the Eurovisions. I got down.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, Johnny, the brand isn't very hot.

No, not really, no.

No, no, no, no.

Russia haven't been in it for, for years and that's fair enough. Have they ever tried to get back in?

Well, not that I know of, but what they did do was do their own version. They did this thing called Intervision. They invited Hungary, Syria, Hungary,

a whole

bunch of Soviet republics. We have Stan and Kazakhstan,

Cuba, Egypt, Brazil, China, Belarus, Saudi Arabia. So that took place. But no, I don't think. I don't think they've been campaigning to get back in. Obviously they must be thinking, well, how come bleeding Israel are still in it? But like, what had happened at the time was the broadcasters kind of en masse were like, we are not doing this if Russia are in that. And for, for one reason or another, the broadcasters have not joined up and said that about Israel.

The. The song from Israel two years ago was also very political, you know, oh, was it?

I can't remember.

Yeah, yeah, there was just after the October Happening and they were showing. Yeah,

it was. What they do is they. They enter these songs and then it's sent back to them because the EBU say, actually, no, these lyrics are too political. And then they just re. Enter it under. Under, you know, different lyrics. So this was called October Rain, I think was the name.

Yeah, yeah.

And then. And then they just. Just changed it to Hurricane. So, like, it kind of rhymes, you know. And so this year, or when you were asking about their entry this year, it's in the top 10 in terms of the odds to win. I. I've just heard a clip of it. I didn't want to actually watch the video itself, but, like, there are videos on YouTube that kind of summarize all the entries and so it seems like a decent song. But the last two years have been very emotive, powerful ballads, which would attract votes in a way that this one, I don't think will. And it's a guy this year, rather than two female solo artists in previous years. So my hope is not my hope. My expectation is that we won't see Israel in contention for the win this year. But sure, you just never know.

If Israel. I presume it doesn't. They will. But if Israel did happen to win, do you think. Yeah, still the broadcasters would go, yeah, that's why we're going to Israel next year.

Yeah. The fandom see that as the end of the whole thing. They just see that as it completely fallen apart and just been dismantled and collapsing. Because I don't. I think, in answer to your question, I don't think. I think a lot of the broadcasters would refuse to take part and they'd be left with 12 countries and they

just be like, well, some of them would. Right. Germany will go.

Some of them, yeah, some of them would.

Yeah, there are. But there are many, many that I don't think, like, the optics of going to Israel right now.

Totally. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So in, like, in a weird kind of. What's the word? Anyway, in a weird way, I kind of want to see what would happen in the event that they did win, because just out of morbid curiosity, like, what would actually happen?

So you think, not going to be a major, major show this. This year, just going to be. Get. Get it over and done with and nothing spectacular to come.

I follow these accounts online, which summarize the daily listens to Eurovision songs of this year. And like this, on this date, say, compared to last year, the The. Just the general plays of all the music, they're way down. So people just in general are just not. The appetite, isn't there? Maybe it's also because the songs aren't quite as strong, but there are Definitely the top 10 of the top 15 have some good entries in there. Sweden will end up somewhere near the top as usual. And Greece are in with a chance this year and they're not usually. So that's kind of a quirky one. Kind of along the lines of Cha cha cha.

Malta.

Are they also Malta? Yeah, I saw the Maltese singer. So when I went. When I was at stock in Stockholm and I was at like a. A pre party for their national final, they had some of the acts coming to sing just to promote their songs. And so the Maltese fella is in Slime Ball and he just is such like. He's like this. He's like this like Lothario kind of figure.

Oh, it's like he's acting. Is he? It's a character.

No, he's. No, it's genuinely him.

Oh, wow.

Kind of cringe. This kind of cringe balladeer and he really just sets my. My skin on edge or whatever the phrase is. Anyway. Yeah, yeah. But what I will say, I've got one song from this year saved on Spotify. Only one. And that's. That's sad. But anyway, maybe I should save Delta Goodrum because I like the Delta Goodrum song, but it's Latvia and it's way down at number 21 in the odds. And she sang her song again in Stockholm and immediately I was just transfixed. I think it's a beautiful song and she's got such a great voice. The uk, I guess being that there are neighbors, people are usually kind of interested in what they're doing. They have this song called. What's it called again? The artist is called Look Mum, no Computer. And the song is called. It's AI. It's called. The song is Einsvi Dry.

Oh, very good.

So back to the German vibes. And it's a very quirky kind of entry which could go either way. It could. It could absolutely tank or it could. People could kind of get. Get on board with it. So they're doing something different. They usually are quite safe, the uk. So at least they're taking something.

I mean, they never send their really big artists, but probably the big artists don't want to go.

No. It's weird, isn't it?

Yeah.

Like UK is one of the biggest, like producers of hit music, you know, in the world. It's like they have such a huge industry and it's just a poison chalice or it's just like seen as embarrassing. Yeah. So many other countries in Europe do send their best. Like the genuinely, like the. The. The best acts in these countries want to go. And for whatever reason, I guess because, you know, some people put it down to the Terry Wogans and the Graham Nortons and the tone of the commentary over the years that actually laughing at it for entertainment has actually put people off ever trying or ever taking it seriously. That kind of sardonic, like, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Haha. Look at Europe being all mad. I think that has really damaged the reputation of the contest. Not that I'm some, like, purist or whatever, but I think Ireland have some great acts, great talent. UK absolutely do. And they just. It's. They would never ever in a million years dream of it.

Coldplay ain't gonna go, right?

Coldplay, Adele, like, no.

And it's like, in a way, it's pity in a way. But like, that guy, Sam. What was his name, with the long hair who had. Who is amazing.

I thought Samurai there.

Like, he's. Has he kind of gone mainstream now or. No.

Somewhat.

Yeah.

He's not exactly racking up the hits, but he's. He's a household name. He could probably do very well touring. He has a fan base. Yeah, he definitely did very well out of it and like, genuinely a bit better than Cabaret. He seems a bit happy. Clappy, like, everything's wonderful. I love smelling flowers and, you know, that kind of thing, which is nice, but like, that's the kind of per. I can't be around that kind of person.

Too good to be true. Isn't hugging trees and all your happiness entirely, Woody?

Look, he seems that. He seems like a decent person. Definitely. He's got a great voice and the song is great and all that, but, you know, some people are just too, like, earnest.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I'm just. I'm just a bit of a cynic and stuff. So, like, I don't really get on too well with those songs. France are up there in the odds. Denmark as well. And Denmark are like, traditionally not. They don't do well at all. So. So a lot of the fan base.

Interesting.

Is kind of excited about Denmark. Yeah. Until there was a controversy. So the Danish guy, on his Instagram story, he was like. He took a picture that he was watching a Pixar movie or a Disney movie on his laptop and there were stickers on the Laptop, which were like pro Israel stickers. And so, like, everyone picks up this fuss and then he has to say, I wasn't even my laptop. And so there was a minor controversy around that. So it's just the whole thing is just obviously overshadowed and the whole thing is muddied by. Yeah, you know what?

I came into this without having listened to anything, purely because I wanted to hear your. Your thoughts first. So I've taken a few notes. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna go off and have a listen now. Oh, yeah, and we'll see then.

Definitely. Check out Delta Goodrooms. I think it's really good.

Yeah, she's fantastic.

Remind us when again, when it is. When is it happening again?

It's the 16th of May, Saturday the 16th. I think. I believe that just shows, I guess, how much I'm not really massively anticipating it. But yeah, it's 16th of May, the Saturday night, and sure will. Whether you watch it or don't watch it, I suppose we just get through it one way or another and hope for better times ahead.

All right, and before you go, tell us about. So you've still got the part, your own podcast going, things gay people like. And you've introduced a new feature which your mum was always a little bit at the end of it, but now she's become an agony anti. Is not correct. So get her emails into.

She's a problem solver still coming on at the. At the end of the episode. So generally each episode I'm talking about one specific topic with somebody like a singer they like or a TV show. And then at the end, I had, I just had the idea at the beginning for my mom to come on and say what she thinks of it. And it's always. It's just. It's just. It's quite a fun little way to end it. But then because oftentimes, you know, we'd be talking about Buffy the Vampire Slayer or something, and she's never seen it. So, like, what is she going to say about it? So then I just had the idea that actually people could write in with any kind of questions or problems or queries they had for her. So we've just. I've just introduced that recently. But, you know, it's funny, you said at the beginning, this is episode of what, 160something? 40something. 44. 144, yeah. And like, I think we started our podcast around the same time without before we even knew each other. And I'm only on episode 61 because I just. I just give myself breaks all the time. And I totally respect how you guys just keep going like. And you're. You're still.

Well, we took a break, didn't we?

Way out ahead of me.

Yeah, we took. We took a break there over Christmas.

Yeah.

Yeah, we took a. Yeah.

I give myself months off doing it for ages.

We take holidays. We don't go on holidays.

Well, we. We don't. We don't do that.

We don't have the budget. Yeah, we don't have the budget. Yeah, that's true.

True. Yeah.

Anyway, listen, thanks for taking part in or talking to us. We shall. We shall take part. Taking part in the show.

You're very good.

We'll put the podcast up in the show notes so people can.

And if anyone has any problems or any questions for. For Kevin's mommy, we'll put in the. You tell. You can tell us all.

Yeah, we can do. Also questions to. To Kevin's mommy. You know, we can do that. Yeah.

It's things gay people like. Gmail dot com, if anybody wants to get in touch for any reason.

Brilliant.

And we're just. Just putting out an episode on the solo careers of the Spice Girls. So if anyone has any interest in that.

Who's your favorite Spice Girl?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I oscillate between Emma and Victoria.

Oh, really?

Emma? Because. Yeah, because I think Emma was like, oh, here we go off on a tangent.

Yeah.

Because I think everyone says Mel C. She. Her voice kind of degraded on me. Emma, I think, was the bedrock of the sound. She's very, very prominent in the mix and has a lovely tone. And then Victoria, just for the laugh, because she's just like, is an interesting character. And so, yeah, probably one of those too. And also when I was in school and before I told anyone that I was gay, all the vast majority of gay guys in school in the 90s pretended to fancy Victoria. And I don't know why. It was always like, yeah, I fancy her. I fancy her. So she holds a special place in my heart.

She was your marriage without even knowing.

But is she married with David Beckham?

She is.

She is, yeah.

Oh, she's the one.

Yeah.

Okay. Okay.

I was kind of hoping you'd say Ginger.

All right, listen, I'm gonna. I said. I said at the beginning to people when we went into record, please let's not go off in tangent.

But it's not a tangent. It's Kevin, and we love him.

Oh, famous last words. Famous last words. Ginger. You know what the last thing to

get into, because Clauda has

Yeah, she. She had such energy. She was the spirit of the Spice Girls and has become some kind of weird Stepford wife. Like all the ginger spiceness has just disappeared from her and she's like a shell of her former self. That's all I'm gonna say. All right, on that note, goodbye.

Love you, Kevin.

Okay, bye.

Bye.

Yo, cl, got the inbox. She's the email queen Reading out your message to go between tips, tricks, complaints, suggestions, Blind guys chat answering your. To bring in the facts, Hit us with them all your wise crack attack. We're ready to reply. Cloth that reads it out loud. No message too sl. So hit that keyboard, let your fingers tap. We're waiting on your voice in this funky rap.

Whoa, man.

There you go.

That's gonna be the.

What a song that is.

Yes. It's got lots of oomph. I still don't know the lyrics, though, isn't it?

Yeah.

Maybe we. Maybe we should go to Eurovision.

Yeah, brilliant.

Definitely.

All right, Claude. Hello, it's over to you.

Hello.

Give us an email.

Thank you. Yeah, so I've two emails, so I think I'll do Claire's one first. Claire from Scene Unseen has emailed. Hello, CLO and all the Blind Guys Chat team. Happy Easter. Hope you're enjoying some downtime. I'm delighted to tell you that the April Scene Unseen will be at imma. Imma, the Irish Museum of Modern Art in Kilmainham, which is gorgeous. If you ever get a chance, you should go. It's brilliant. So that's on Saturday, April 25th at 2:30pm and this will be an in person and online Scene Unseen and Tactile packs will be posted free of charge to participants living with sight losses who are joining online via Zoom Platform. Registration is now open and participation is free of charge for people living with sight loss. Thank you for sharing. Looking forward to catching up with you in person soon. Kindest regards, Claire. Isn't she fantastic? I love her. I want to go to that one, Oren.

Yeah, sure.

Thank you.

25th.

25th. Yeah, stick it in your diary.

Okay.

Let's take it in my diary.

Enjoy.

Thanks.

Enjoy.

So that's. That's our email from Claire. Thanks, Claire. We've got one from a chap called now, forgive me if I'm pronouncing it wrong, but Jose, I think. And it's Jose. Jose.

Depends on where they're from.

He's from Portugal.

American.

That's Jose.

Okay, he's from Portugal.

So then it's Jose.

Oh, really? A nice soft J Lovely. Well, his, his subject line says those annoying graphics and he says hello blind guys. Oh no. Shose here from Portugal. Am I wrong? Do it again. Jose here from Portugal. I love listening to the podcast and thank you guys are very. Is very funny. We guys is very funny. And your topics and guests are insightful. That's a big word. Can you please tell me when using my screen reader Jaws, how can I move past these annoying graphics such as previous slide button or next slide or thumbs thumbnails or graphic thumbnail photos and Twitter or mail when all I want to do is read the text on the web page? That's a fair point. I have tried flexible web but it does not seem to work the way I want. Please to help if you can. Hello to emails Clodagh Chef and Larry.

So he's.

Well, we're the important ones. Yeah, he's obviously a long time listener.

Yeah, Mo.

I mean there are some tricks you can use. Graphics are. So in some cases graphics are not labeled. And in those cases you can set a setting in Jaws. I don't know it by heart, but that setting will basically hide all the unlabeled graphics. So the graphics that Jaws will see without any label, where normally it just says graphic, graphic, graphic, that will be hidden, but that should be set by default. So unless you change that setting to show unlabeled graphics, it should not show up in terms of thumbnails and buttons and stuff like that. What usually we try to tell people is try navigating by heading rather than just down arrow or tab. It works a lot better. So. So you press the H key to go to the next heading on the web page or you press shift H key to go to the previous heading. Well, also in Dutch, but in the Portuguese version, I don't know, it might be different. I think, I think actually quick nav keys typically are not translated, but they might be. But yeah, so it's the H key and the shift H key that will bring you to headings. And normally after a heading you should just get text and sometimes you just have to move past those elements because those elements are there and you may not want to see them, but still they are there. And there might be buttons that you want to press at some point. So completely hiding them on each webpage of course does not work. But yeah, try navigating by heading. That might alleviate your problem somewhat. One trick you can use if you have jaws 2026 is you can use the Page Explorer feature and that's invoked in English by insert shift E, I don't know what the Portuguese keystroke is, but then Jaws will actually use AI to analyze the page for you. And if you ask a question of Vispire Companion, which is actually the tool that is analyzing the website for you, it might be able to give you the information you need if the website is particularly hard to navigate. So that's another trick you can use.

Interesting. Can I ask about ads then? Because a lot of some say news articles or something, if they're a free version, you get loads and loads of ads. And how does that operate? Sometimes as a sighted person, the ads pop up over the content.

Well, typically, so luckily, usually Jaws will actually be able to read behind the ad. And so you will still be able to read the article even though the ad might be visually over the. The text. That does not matter to John.

That's great.

Can just read. The problem is if there are many, many ads, is that you run into an issue where. Where the ads become so distracting that you can't really read the content anymore. And there are a couple of tricks you can use for that. So there's flexible web, as Jan said, that allow you to hide certain elements on a webpage. And the good thing is that Jaws will remember the type of elements that you want to hide.

Oh, very good.

If the ads are all laid out in the same way and sort of marked up the same way, which typically I think the chances are 60, 40 that they are, you can just hide all the ads all at once. In cases where that isn't the case, or if you don't want to use flexible web, you can also use a couple of browser features to get rid of the ads. So both Google Chrome and Microsoft Edge and I believe also Firefox have a reading mode where if you enable that reading mode, you will get the article without any distractions.

Oh, that's very clever.

So you should be able to read without reading the ads as well. So there are a couple of tools that you can use in order to handle that situation.

That's really helpful. Thank you.

Thanks for that, Mo.

Brilliant.

Yeah, perhaps.

Mo, I have a question then for you as well. You know, when you are watching YouTube videos, you had also sometimes these annoying ads, you know, then you need to. Is there an easy way to quickly go to the skip app at button? You know, because it always takes a while when. When. When it pops up or. Because I. Do you need to subscribe then to or.

Well, that's one option, right? You can subscribe to YouTube and pay and I don't want that for sure. And if you don't want that, there is a script for Jaws and this is not. Yeah, this is not in Jaws proper. So we have not built such a thing. But There is a third party developer that has created YouTube scripts. His name is Doug Lee. Yeah. So this is not official Vispero. And so, you know, install. I want to say install at your own risk. But also I trust Doug completely. So personally, I will absolutely recommend using his scripts as, you know, as a Vispero employee, I can't say much, but personally as Mo, I would say install his scripts. The website is dle.org he's got a whole bunch of scripts. One of them is a YouTube script. They're very easy to install. He keeps updating them all the time. And he has keystrokes for you to press that skip ad button.

Brilliant.

And I use it on my private machine.

Oh, fantastic.

Very good.

That's a handy thing.

Great.

Okay, we should put that in the show notes.

Yeah, that's loads. Yeah. Thank you.

So that's-lee.orgd L E E. Brilliant.

Yeah, fantastic.

Fantastic. Thank you so.

Okay, folks, well, thank you so much. We're gonna wrap it up there. Thanks to Kevin Sherman and thanks to Mo for all that advice on.

Yeah.

And we will see you in two weeks time, folks. Thank you very much. Bye Bye.

Bye.