#130: Stop drooling on me pants

Foreign.

Welcome to Blind Guys Chat, where Oren o'.

Neill. Hello.

Yang Bloom. Hello. And Mohammed Lashear. Hi there. Talk about the A to Z of life. Well, hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to this episode of Blind Guys Chat.

You taking my cake today?

Oren is not presenting, but I'm presenting because I feel like it.

Rebellion.

But I'm still here.

No, no rebellion. Just a takeover. That's all.

Just a takeover. Hey, it's a coup. It's a coup. Yeah, yeah. Black banana. Black banana. Okay.

Rebellion sounds so violent. This is not violent.

Well, welcome. Welcome back to everyone. Welcome back to our listeners because we've had a month off from the podcast.

Yes, indeed.

So you're very welcome back to the first show of September.

Don't take over.

Yeah. Oh yeah.

It'S. It's. It's all right. It's.

Yeah.

You gotta leave them some freedom, Clauda. You can't be a tyrant, can you?

Hey guys, what. What is all about after this holiday season? What did we do in the past in the holiday.

Well first of all, before we go to holidays do we have we all heard the terrible, terrible news which was. Which was released earlier this week which is that the delight is no longer coming to Europe. Oh. Press release last week that.

Yeah.

That announcement from Guidance that in for the. Well, certainly I think it's indefinitely. They've said the glide unit will. Will device will not be coming to Europe for the first time even not the uk.

Only Canada, America and the uk.

And the uk. So.

And Ireland is also not there then.

Nope.

Because we're. We're considered. You're also Europe. So it's not coming. It's not coming to Europe.

Why?

Well, this is speculation of course, but they already delayed the. The release and I. What I expect is happening is that they find it maybe to be less reliable outside of the States or certainly in Europe. And so they are. They are waiting to improve it before putting it out there.

Yeah. The other thing that was in their press release that has just come to my head is they said. And I'll get the wording wrong, but I think they said the logistics of releasing it in Europe were too great at the moment. So I kind of got from that is they're. They're launching and maybe I'm could be completely wrong, maybe they're just launching it in English speaking countries at the moment.

Yes.

Because.

Well that's true. I mean they speak Scottish Gaelic in parts of Great Britain, I guess, but also English.

So. Line Gordon. Sorry, step in here. I would say come on this is such an insult.

I don't think the Glide will speak Scots Gaelic, though.

I don't think it will. Come on.

Why. Why wouldn't they release it in Ireland then?

I think Europeans, especially in some countries are used to get things from their insurance.

Ah. They don't pay, and so they don't.

Want to pay themselves. And so once you go there, like an insurance company is not going to very easily reimburse you for the Glide unless you go through serious regulatory and frankly just hurdles that the insurance companies themselves put up in order to be even eligible for this. So there is a regulation called mdr Medical device regulation, and that's actually what's used in. In medical settings. And if you're going to get this thing reimbursed by insurance in most European countries, it'll be health insurance that does that. And health insurance will not cover this, I don't think, unless you jump through those hoops. And I think that's what they're running into and what they fear. I believe at least this is just my not so common sense or maybe common sense, but I think what they. What they're so. They are not ready to commit to that. And what they fear that if they release in Europe without health insurance coverage, they are not going to sell very many units. And so it's maybe not going to be worth it.

Yeah. Or I got also another. And I have a suspicious mind. Of course. I think it has to do with the word L, O, B, B.

Maybe. I mean, probably.

Yeah, yeah. You know, the guide association, you know, we. We don't want to have a substitute for our guide dogs.

Yeah. I mean, that might be true.

Chef and Larry, they. They're really annoyed.

What's lobby got to do Lobby?

Well, I mean, they might be afraid. Right. That they lose their right to exist, essentially.

Who's lobby? Sorry, I don't understand what lobby is.

Oh, is this also not English?

No, it is English. The lobby, the big guide dog lobby.

Yeah, the guide dog.

When you lobby politics.

I see. But like some. Some people will want a dog and some people won't want to talk. And that's just always the way, isn't it?

That's true. Okay.

It has anything to do with the fact that this. There are two. There will now be two cameras on this device and you'll fall into the. It falls into the same category as meta with the meta ray ban, where effectively you have this device running down the road with you and it is looking in front of it.

And Vision had some news where they are releasing the Ally Solos glasses. Smart glasses.

Yeah, I was going to go on.

To that with cameras in there. And they do release in Europe. So yeah, I mean, one can say like for Meta, if you really are inclined to, you know, follow Meta stories, say, you know, maybe Meta itself is under heightened scrutiny, but a startup like Glide would not be. I don't think they need to be afraid of those regulations. There's also a French company called Capsis that is building a navigational assist with, I think it's a helmet or something that's also. Also has a camera. And they are very much about to release in Europe. And so I think Glide is not embedded in Europe. They do not have the contacts to, you know, get this thing reimbursed through health insurance.

What has Glide or any mobility aid got to do with health insurance?

Right. So for example, in Germany and also in the Netherlands, and I think there are other European countries where this is true, you can get not only, you know, direct things directly related to health, but also related to actually supporting you in your life, in your day to day life through health insurance, if you have the correct disability. So I can get. Every three years I can get a white cane through my health insurance. Every two years I can get glasses, prescription glasses through my health insurance. At least they won't pay everything. I think they'll pay up to €100, but at least it's a start. Right. And so they'll reimburse you for some of it. A white cane, they'll pay completely for like every three years you'll get a new one. And if you need one in between.

You know, only the basics.

Yeah, the cheap one.

Yeah, yeah.

So you'll get a basic, you'll get a basic white cane basically for free every three years. And if you need one in between, you need to pay, but otherwise it's just free. For example, we walk, if you can prove that you need it, you can also, I believe, get that through health insurance. But the we walk is €600 or something along those lines, like 1500. And so maybe people are willing to pay a little bit, but. But 1500 and then a subscription on top of that is going to be difficult. Maybe. So that's why. Go ahead, Claudia.

Sorry, Mo. Is this kind of public health insurance like through your. Funded through your social welfare systems in your country, or is it.

This is correct.

Private health insurance. So it's the public health insurance.

It's the public one, yes, that, that pays for this. And this very much happens in Germany too. In the Netherlands, if you want jaw for home use, you also can get it through your health insurance and they'll pay every three years.

Wow.

So these things are like. This is pretty normal.

We don't have this in Ireland anyway.

Yeah. But I think we have parts of Europe.

Yeah. In parts of Europe we have.

This is very normal. And I think that's what they're afraid of. I think they're afraid of making the case that people need to buy it themselves. It's fairly expensive. I mean, to be honest with you, I would consider it. But I think they saw their pre orders from Europe and they realized, well, if it's that difficult compared to the rest of the world to get this thing sold, even to get people to pre order in Europe, how difficult is it going to be? And then we need to keep up the logistics of actually distributing this thing in Europe. We need to repair this thing in Europe.

Yeah. They did not have their dealerships arranged, I think.

I think they said 15% of their pre orders were from Europe so far.

And that's a massive market. The EU is 500 million people. If only 15%, I wouldn't do it either. I mean, to be frank with you, I would try to get into the health insurance game, go through the MDR regulations and release then, because then you stand a chance. But just selling this thing in Europe, it's going to be hard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think Jan is right. They don't have the resellers anyway, but they haven't lined those up. So I'm not aware.

But so it's, it's all.

And they were not at Site City also at this year. So that was also already a little bit suspicious.

That was a sign. That was definitely a sign. Yes. Yeah.

Well, all I know is that as I say, folks, they're not releasing the glide in the. At that data set for the foreseeable future. And anybody who just in case you haven't read the. The press release and you did pre order it, apparently if pre ordered it in Europe, you were going to get a refund of your money that, that you paid.

What is then the envision. What was that?

Oh yes, the envision. Yeah, the ally. Isn't it for solos.

Correct.

So they've been released or they. They're going to be released. So these are a replacement to the envision glasses. And from what I understand, the price is going to be around $399.

Slightly more expensive here.

The functionality seems to be pretty similar to the envision glasses that you have Mo, I'm not 100% on that, but maybe, you know, a little bit more.

Yeah, so I bought these, I pre ordered them.

Yeah. Oh, you have the traditional glasses or the already available ones?

No, no, the already available ones I already have. I must say these are to me at least a little disappointing. I use them sometimes, but I see too often that it doesn't see what I expect it to see.

Okay.

So I'm having a little bit of difficulty pointing these things and I think it's because it has the camera only on one side. So I ordered these new ones because I think they have cameras on both sides and it can record in 4K and so I'm hoping it will work a little bit better than the. And it will have much longer battery life.

And when do you get them?

I get them somewhere in October. They said, oh, and you know, we'll see. So this one, I, I'm very excited for this one because we'll get meta Ray ban like glasses here in Europe that will just work without VPN shenanigans and all that stuff. And you know, it's a, it's a reasonable enough price. I mean after taxes I ended up paying something like €630. The taxes are also not in the price for the, the 399. I suspect if you pre order them even in the States, you'll get taxes slapped on top and it will become more expensive. Yeah, but you know, it's a very competitive price compared to the, the meta ray bans and I'm very excited to see.

But do you expect also that the meta ray ban will be available? Because I think they will release it September, October also here in the Netherlands.

I mean, I hope so. I expect, I mean envision I was lucky I was able to get it through a grant.

Oh yeah.

Otherwise I would never have paid €3,500 myself. The Glide I was considering, but this one, I think it would have been too much. But these ones I'm willing to pay and I suspect I'm going to burn a lot of money on smart glasses in the coming years because this space is developing quite quickly and I wouldn't put it past myself to buy the meta Ray bans too if they become available here with the Meta AI functionality, of course, otherwise it's pointless.

No, I still use them a lot when I'm walking about, you know, I'm making calls, listening to music, etc. That is, I find even that is quite useful I would say I am.

Finding when you get down to the Little minutiae. The little detail of an image meta. The AI is often not correct.

Okay.

It seems to be fine for looking. Tell me what's in front of me. And if it's looking at, like, a landscape, it's no problem.

In the kitchen, for example. It's not helping you a lot. Or. Or it helps.

It does happen in the kitchen. But when you get into the, like, the minor details of, like, maybe it's just maybe the way you're. You're looking or you're using a wet way that. That the camera is positioned. But for instance, I've had occasion when I'm sitting outside because we have. We've had a relatively lovely summer. And if I'm sitting outside in our garden and Larry is there, if it doesn't see Larry, you know, very often, it'll, you know, say a picture of a garden with shrubs and trees and what, you know, et cetera, et cetera, blue sky, blah, blah. And I'll say, is there a dog in front of me? And it'll say, there is no dog in front of you. And then I'll say, no, you're incorrect. There is a dog. And then I'll go, there is a dog in front of me. I apologize. Oh, and then if you. If you try and trick it and you say, you know, you get that little beep again to follow on a question. If you say, no, actually, there's no dog, it then decides to go, you're quite correct. There is no dog. So what is it like? Make up your mind. Is it. What are you saying? So, and I've noticed that with other little things being out with Larry just walking them and, you know, looking for traffic lights, poles and that, just asking where it is and, you know, it might. It might confuse a traffic, like a traffic light pole for, you know, a street lamp. And again, if you say, no, there is a street, there is a traffic. Oh, I'm sorry, there is a traffic light pole in front of you.

Oh, and if you.

Again, if I trick it, which I'm, you know, I'm inclined to do, to see, you know, is it. Is it learning anything? It doesn't seem to be. There doesn't seem to be any great AI learning in. In the. Since it began to work in Ireland. So I'm, I'm just interested. Just wonder, are people experiencing that as well? Yeah.

Ryan Gordon has two. Has two.

He has. Yeah. Yeah.

So I think one thing to keep in mind here with these things is AI does not learn in real time. There are ways to. I mean, it might in the future. I think there are thoughts on how to do it. But at least right now, once a model is deployed, it's that model and that's it. What AI might do is have memory. So it'll put something, you tell it somewhere in a database and now it knows you're called Orin. But that's not learning, that's data retrieval. It's learning in a way. Right? This is how we learn too. We put knowledge in our memory and then when we need it, we retrieve it. And now we've learned something. But I don't think things. So as complex as what's visible in a picture is what you can learn is what those systems can learn. It's trivial data about you. That's what they can learn. Now, I don't know what kind of models Meta uses. I presume it's their own. And there have been major meta AI releases, but they've been kind of disappointing. That doesn't mean that they aren't better than what they had way in the beginning. But I'm not sure that any significant breakthroughs could have happened between when it started in Ireland and right now. Now that might all change because they have a Meta Connect event on September 20th and they may announce stuff. They may announce the release of Meta Ray Bans in Europe, for example. But what they also may announce is a better model, a better visual model for these things. And if that's, you know, if that comes, then maybe, maybe it'll be better. I don't know what Envision uses, but I suspect because Envision is not tied to a particular model, they can pick one that works better than the Meta Llama models. And so I'm hoping it's better. I mean, to be honest, even on the Envision glasses, it's pretty good when it works. I love it when it works. However, it's too often that I just need to stand awkwardly to get something in view or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm just, I don't know, it's just not quite it yet.

The other thing that, that we've noticed, Claude and I have noticed and certainly I've noticed over the last. Since the last update to the glasses is sometimes I go out on my own to over to bin shed or trash shed because it's a communal shed. And I'll do a WhatsApp call with Cloda.

Yeah.

And I've noticed since the last update that even though the phone is in my pocket and the metal glasses are very near the phone I'm getting, Cloda, is seeing a lot of freezing images, and I'm getting a message in my ears saying, your Bluetooth is unstable. Please make sure you are near, as near to your phone as you can be. And I'm just wondering again, has anybody experienced that? And it's only since the last software update. Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's peculiar. It's, it's, It's. It's quite annoying because you think, well, the phone is in my pocket. Why are you having Bluetooth issues? And you. And you. And it's been working all day and suddenly you do.

Well, there's no other Bluetooth.

There's no other Bluetooth connected at the time.

So I did not observe it because I used it this weekend when I was in my dad's house on Friday or. Yeah, Friday. And then I. But I did not observe this recently. Okay, yeah, but sometimes I recognize the message because I'm not unfamiliar with it, but it does not happen much. Hey, but Mo, you were really being. Leaving the edge to go on your own to Berlin. My God. And you did not even use your own helicopter. You went very modest with a public train.

Wow. I mean, I mean, I can't brag too much, right?

No, that's true.

Helicopter. You know, phoning. Phoning the, The Chancellor in advance so that I get.

Exactly.

It's not easy.

I understand. But tell me.

I just wanted to relax, you know.

Okay, no, but, but where, where did you go? How. How did you do it?

Yeah, so I took the train to Berlin. I arrived at the station and the train just, you know, was canceled. And I'm like, oh. And luckily they were really nice at the station and they rebooked me and I, I could take one train later. And. But, but yeah, the train was cancelled, which was, which was an auspicious start, but it didn't end up representing the rest of the trip because the rest of the trip went actually surprisingly well. I would say if you go to a foreign city, A, really prepare well or B, speak the language. And I did the second. I speak a little German, so I was able to save myself when I got lost by asking questions. But if you don't speak the language, make sure that you prepare well and make sure that you understand what you're getting into, because it can be quite overwhelming in a new city. Start maybe with something, you know, maybe a little smaller and maybe in your own country, Go like, go like for a weekend to a new place and try it out that way before you Go to a foreign place. I would say, yeah.

But you stayed in a hotel.

I did, yes. So I just booked a hotel. I waltzed in there, I took a taxi, I got in there. I barely took any taxis. I usually went with public transport, except for when I had my luggage with me or in the evening when I was tired. I'm like, nope, taking an Uber. So. But usually I would take public transport and it went pretty well. But yeah, I just came into the hotel and I went over to the front desk and they gave me my room and it was. They gave me an accessible room, which I don't like those rooms typically. But too big. Yeah, no, it's not that they're too big. The reason why I dislike them is because you don't have to step over anything to get into the shower.

Oh, yeah.

And that means that if you shower a little bit too enthusiastically, everything is.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Enthusiastic sharer.

I am, I am a very enthusiastic. I enjoy myself very much. But then, you know, no, you know, your shower turns into a swimming pool. So I, I decided to.

Yeah, I, I get something also more always lost in those accessible toilets, bathrooms, etc, because they are so spacey.

Yeah. They.

Where is everything? And I don't want to pull on every string because then I'm afraid that I called someone.

Yeah, yeah.

Going on and off. Whatever it happened to me. Yeah, they're gonna wreck.

Is there something wrong?

I said, no, no, no, no, sorry, no, no, nothing. It's quite funny. Yeah.

And I didn't ask for one of those rooms. But they saw.

No, but they saw your blind. Oh my God. Accessible.

And they just gave you one.

Yeah, but you did kind of rely a little bit and especially in the museums on people to bring you around. In actual, actual fact, by the sounds of the recordings, it almost sounded like you. You arrived into the museum you're going to and then you started waving the cane around and bumping into, Trying to find somebody to bump into, and then went, right, will you bring me around this place?

And then they sent you out.

I mean, to be honest, what I did, that is what I did. And, and you know, the best part of it is they never told me to get lost. There was this one English guy, Chris. Chris was pretty cool. He, We. He and I and his kids, his boys, two boys went through the DDR Museum, the GDR museum, in proper English, that's the German Democratic Republic, the communist East Germany.

Yeah.

And it was quite a bit of fun. And you know, the guy just described everything and Read everything that there was to read. And we. We just explored the museum together. And it was. It was pretty cool. And then when we were done, he brought me to the door and I went out and, you know, I got a coffee and he went back because his boys wanted some stuff from the gift shop. And I didn't see him again, but, you know.

Oh, that's a video. Mr. Chris, many thanks. Yeah, yeah.

Many thanks to Mr. Chris and Ms. Susan through the Stasi Museum. The East German Stasi museum. Yeah. And she used German. She was there with a friend of hers, but she just took me through the entire museum and told me which numbers to press for my audio guide. I met an Irish guy, an older Irish gentleman, and we found, like this. It's called the Topography of Terror. It was about the German. The German Gestapo and SS in the Second World War and the Nazi era. And we went through it together, and, you know, we just listened to the audio guide and we read and all that stuff. And he. He was pretty cool, too. Like, there were just always people willing to help. The only time that I didn't do that was the first museums I went to, which were like, prehistoric museums and the old Romans and old Greeks, and there I just used aira.

Okay.

And they allowed me to use aira. They were like, yeah. I mean, we'd let you in with a guide dog. So this is kind of an electronic guide dog.

Okay. That's funny.

I used. I used AIRA in there and that. It all worked out, like, in the end. Like, you can always. I found that when people, especially on a holiday, they're pretty friendly and, you know, I mean, they probably would have been friendly anyway.

Yeah.

And did anybody. Did any of the museums or any of the spaces where you were. Did you have any trouble with people saying, well, you're a blind guy on your own. You can't.

The first museum I went to, they didn't know what to do with me. They started running around like, you know, headless chickens. Blind man. Blind man in the museum. What? Well, that's what it's like.

Every time Oren goes to our local shop, there's one woman who freaks out every single time she sees him.

Oh, really? You should dress normally, Oren. I used to dress up normally. When you go in, you know, I know.

I know when she's. I know when she's in, when she's.

Working, because wearing shorts.

Usually Larry and I go off to the counter and then I hear this woman go, oh, Jesus Christ.

And then she goes.

Serious, say, Amen, my dear Mom. Amen, my dear.

I would. I would, in that case, pull out your cane and start, like, whirling it around your head like a helicopter and be like. And be like, I'm looking for peanut butter. Where's the peanut butter?

And my cane cannot see. My cane cannot see.

Help. I'm blind.

Help.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Years now the same lady panics every time.

Oh, okay.

But.

But it was quite fun.

Then tell us about the first museum. Go on.

Yeah, yeah.

So the first museum. So I came in there and I asked, because I wasn't. I looked on their website, and I couldn't find anything. And I'm like, so do you do tours here? And they're like, I don't know. And then this guy came and pulled me over and said, sit down here. Okay, fine, I'll sit down. And he's like, I'm gonna go ask my boss whether you can go in. And I'm like, well, you try to get me out of here. And I'm going to ring 112.

Yeah.

And so he went and talked to his boss, and I think his boss told him, like, of course he can go in. Let him in. And so he said, we don't need tourists, but you can go in, but we can't help you. Goodbye. And then he walked off. I'm like, oh, finally I'm rid of this guy. Because this took, like, 10, 15 minutes maybe. And it was pretty quiet in the museum, and. And there wasn't anyone I ran into. So I just decided to ring Ira. I first took a couple of pictures, would be my eyes, to get a feel of the hall. And then I just called rang Ira because I was like, well, I'm probably gonna be here all day if I don't bring Ira. And so I did.

Oh, and it kind of nice for.

The person who's helping you as well, though, because they got to have a day in a museum in Berlin.

Really thanked me. Yeah. There was this one lady, and this was not in a museum, but I was walking towards the food tour, and she was like, thank you for taking me on a trip through Berlin. Sure.

But there was your opportunity, Mo.

I mean, I don't even know where she lives.

That was clearly her going, exactly. Would you like to ask me out or not?

Everybody who's nice to you means they're coming on to you. That's not.

Oh, yeah.

But that was my next question when.

He met me first, and I wasn't.

But Mo, touching this point by. By Mr. Orange was a really nice bridge. Did it work out in a way or did you get some media?

No dates. I did not go any. Any dates? Nope.

That's a bit. That's a bit of an intimate question. Unfairness. I wouldn't have had the nerve to.

Ask for his well being.

I will. Do you know, Jan has.

Jan has no limits. Jan will just ask and it's okay. I know him. He's all right.

I. I think the. I think one of the funniest stories. Well, it's funny to me was when you were. I think it was one of your last days and you're in the Trabant. I was kind of amused by your. Your voice messages which said that the woman at the. At the reception desk. Or that. Yeah. That the desk was more or less looking at you all the time. Was she worried that you were going to run away?

Drive away with.

No, I don't think so. I. I think she just was a little impressed and a bit fascinated and she was just really nice. I mean, she came over to me. She took a picture of me with the trevant.

There's another woman you could have asked out.

Yeah.

Yeah. I don't do that unless I know that they're not 75. And I'm a gentleman. 75, he's a gentleman.

And he has a window.

I do. I do have a window.

He has a window.

I do have a window. I am both. So. No, but she was really nice. She was like, guiding me through the museum and she was like, oh, I'm sorry, I have to run back to see if there are people. And she wasn't able to speak English very well, so she was a little uncertain. And she would pull my arm. She was like, is this okay? And I'm okay.

Yes, it's fine, baby.

Feeling dunked down.

Feeling dunked by the dung. Yes, yes.

Oh, but. And, and how was the food? What did you like for food? Did you eat something special?

Well, I went on a food tour, of course. So that was pretty good because you got to eat all German food, like the currywurst. Of course, I had a vegetarian one because the other one.

Yeah, yeah.

But I did so on the food tour. I once went to a Turkish restaurant and they give me a free meal. They'll be like, no, you don't need a free meal.

Wow.

I'm like, are you sure? And he's like, yeah, sure, you don't need. And I got a free coffee also, like at a coffee place after the GDR museum. They. They didn't want to take my money. I'm like, okay, well, I asked, I think you look twice, three times.

I think they, they looked at you. Poor guy. So, so exhausted and what a lonely and whatever, you know, blind 10.

Let's give him a cane. Trying to find the door. And he went, we better give him a coffee.

Give, give him something, something.

Before he decided, yeah, poor guy. Okay, no, yeah, that's good.

So, and I had like. So I went to a Turkish place, I went to a Syrian place, to an Italian place. I had a lot of German food during the German. During the food tour.

Yeah, you had a very, very good tour then, Mr. Bo.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I would like for everyone who is moderately good. No, I think you have to be fairly good at, you know, orientation. It's definitely something you should try. It can be a lot of fun to travel around on your own. You're not, you know, you're not, you're not wedded to anyone. I mean, it's also fun. Like later I went with my parents for a long weekend to Sardinia and that was pretty nice as well.

Oh, lovely.

And when you're with people, you know, you don't have to think about stuff and it's easier. But yeah, so if you have some skills to navigate, if you're a beginner, don't. But if you are not, if you are fairly good at it, you should try it. It is very nice.

That's a nice invitation for our listeners, I would say, to bring out their travel experiences or if they have some tips and trips, tricks, because it's always fun, you know, to hear those stories because. Did you ever go. I see this special travel agencies also for online. What is it? Travel eyes or something?

Travel eyes, yeah.

Did you ever hear from them or did, did you join them? I never did, to be honest.

Neither did I.

Did you do or. Claude, did you go?

No, we've talked about it, but no, I mean, I'm, I'm his travel agent, basically.

But sometimes I think you, you can also be. Yeah, you want something else or. Yeah, be more independent in a way.

I think the experience that I've heard from people in Ireland who have used the servers is mixed in that you can have a great time with somebody that is guiding you around and it's lovely if you get on very well. But if you don't get on with the person because you don't necessarily know. As far as I know, the way it works is you don't know the person that's going to be guiding you.

On your holiday and is it one on one for the complete trip? Yeah, you'll have a fixed guy or fixed.

As far as I'm aware, you have a fixed guide. Now you, I think you do some of the things, you might do groups, you know, you might do a tour or whatever, daily tour or whatever in a group. But basically you have, from what I understand, you have one fixed person who is your guide for the duration of your holiday. So if you don't get on with that person, you don't like them.

Yeah. Then it's terrible.

My God, it can be a bit.

Of troll when she's not good looking. Then it's terrible guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially for us. Some people also some blind people go on cruises as well because. Yeah, that's what of course on the ship you can learn the layout and so life gets a lot easier after like two to three days.

And they're designed for safety and accessibility. So there's no, you know, there's no bumps or you know, things you can like. It's very, it's all rounded edges and they think very much about accessibility and those things. So.

But I would say if you want to start traveling, maybe start in your own country. For Americans, of course, it's easy, you can go anywhere. But for people in Europe, start in your own country where you speak the language and go from there. And the way I cut my teeth is basically by business travel mostly. So that made it a little bit easier for me to go on my own as well. But I definitely caught the bug. I mean Vienna, Milan, maybe at some point Paris, cities in Belgium, maybe even the Netherlands as well, because I've not, definitely not been everywhere.

Glad you enjoyed your trip.

Definitely.

And yeah. Okay, well, we'll call that show a show.

Yeah.

We say thank you very much for listening to episode 130 folks. And do drop us a line to blind guys chat gmail.com if you can tell us about all your stories over the the summer. We'd love to hear them. And we will see you in two weeks time. Bye.