#122: Attitude adjuster

Welcome to Blind Guy's Chest, where this guy, Oren O'Neill. Hello. And this guy, Jan Bloom. Hello.

And Claudia O'Donovan.

Hello.

Talk about the A to Z of life. Well, hello, ladies and gentlemen, and you're very welcome to episode 122 of Blind Guys Chat. Now, we are recording on a Sunday, so I will say to all of you. We're recording on a Monday. Yeah. Monday today. Oh, yeah.

Monday. Monday.

I say a belated happy Easter to all of you.

Yeah.

And for those of you who don't celebrate Easter, we don't wish you a happy Easter.

No. But also, yeah, condolences to the people. You know, our dear beloved Pop is.

Recording on Monday and the Pope died. And I'm blaming J.D. vance because he went to see him on Sunday. I believe it was Sunday morning. He went to see him and he did have some Easter eggs for the Pope. But he did say to the Pope, you have to find the Easter eggs. So. So I think it was a bit much now to make it an 88 year old man find the Easter eggs around the Vatican. I mean, that's what killed him. That is. Yeah, that's.

And also I think that the Pope was not so happy with the administration now currently running in the US and he sent him, Mr. Trump A really nasty letter or an, or a letter to, you know, he was mad about the deportations and all the, you know, he was really. And also how he treated the war in Ukraine and dealt with the situation in Gaza.

Here's a ridiculous one for you. Just apropos of nothing. Right. I listened to this on the radio during the week where the Prime Minister of Italy, who is a woman.

Oh, this lady can't remember her name. Yeah, yeah. Melona.

Yeah. Flew to. Was it, I think flew on Monday or Tuesday, but very early in the week flew to Washington to meet Trump and in the process also met Vance, what's his name?

Vance.

Right.

They only seem to meet people together.

And then, and here's the ridiculous one, she then flew back the same day to Italy so that she could have lunch with J.D. vance, who she met.

Oh, it was the next day, was it?

Well, I mean, well, it was the next day in like, let's say she flew over on Monday. So on Monday night, Monday night she. Early Tuesday morning she was back in Italy and at a Tuesday lunchtime, J.D. vance was flying from.

Popped in for now, sandwich.

Did he pop there for a sandwich? Like, nah. How ridiculous is that?

It's pretty ridiculous.

Answers on a postcard, please.

Because you Know. And they don't blame climate change or whatever. Yeah, but can you not do.

She doesn't think anything of climate change. If she was prepared to go to Washington and then fly back. I mean.

But they didn't even fly together. They both went to Italy on the same day.

Different places in their own Air Force One or whatever. In this bloody. Yeah.

What's the wor.

I think our leaders, they are not really that qualified at this stage. You know. They are. They are messing around.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not really.

Well, speaking of messing around. Yeah, okay.

I didn't do anything.

Speaking of mess.

No, me neither.

By the way, we're going to learn. We're going to. We're going to learn and we're going to hear from lovely lady later on Deborah Erickson about cooking. Cooking when you're blind. So.

Hey, can you. Do you know the Swedish cookie. Can you not cook? And then you have those old men, you know from the. Yeah.

Oh my grumpy man.

The only reason to come here is to keep warm. Yo.

I think it's bloody cold here. You know.

What's the weather like over there? Because it's really nice here except it was raining and.

Yeah. And we had some rain last night as well so that was also really necessary. So that was. But we had an incredible nice eastern weekend. It was very good. We had also family weekend with my dad and then the funny thing happened that he broke his hip. It's not funny. Yeah.

Poor dad gotta push him harder next time.

Yeah, I thought so too that he could also swim because we were in. In a part of the Netherlands where you. It. It is called. It looks like Venice. Little Venice.

Oh lovely.

You know, in like in Italy you have all those small channels. Etc Old farmhouses and so it was a pretty, pretty, pretty few. It was. Was very nice. It was a lot of tourists, especially a lot of Chinese. My God. Too many Chinese. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, it's really funny because I think that this little fence is really then displayed in the marketing brochure of. Yeah. For China. I think, you know it's really. A lot of Chinese people are coming to that place now.

Yeah.

We had a nice. And then the last day or last walk to the.

He.

Yeah he fell. So yeah, that was on Saturday and today he was for an X ray in the. In the hospital and it was. Yeah, we. There was a diagnosis for an. Yeah. Little. Little break in this. So he has to stay in bed for a longer period. But now life goes on, you know.

I know but Jan, it's tough thing and it's not, it's not fun having a parent who's, you know, dealing with all that stuff.

Hey, but, but I, I also. We need to call out to our guys from Scotland because how is Dundee United doing? Because I'm a little bit in pain. Our team, you know, we are in the, in the in in the run for promotion and, and we did a real good match yesterday but also the, our competitor did also so we are still. And, and they won from the number one because they are already promoted. So they are. And they could get the championship yesterday evening when they would shoot win from our competitor, you know, but they did not do any. They lost four to one.

How can you.

So how much did they get paid? I think, you know, I have to.

Take Umbridge or do take Umbridge with our, with our good friend Mr. Blind Gordon.

Oh yeah.

Why?

Because he was. He sent in a voice message to really another podcast that was not our podcast he was talking about. And maybe we'll put it out to our listeners about the topic of sunglasses and particularly the matter. It was, it was meta again. So it was. The topic was not so much meta, but the topic was really whether it is acceptable or not to wear sunglasses if you are blind and what people's perception of you is when you wear sunglasses. Sighted people. Yeah. What sighted people think of you. Who cares what sighted people you do or you don't.

Okay.

And it's. And it's on this other podcast. It's been it. It seems to be running for quite some time, like a. Well, like a week or so wherever Hotly debated topic debated with people leaving messages about whether they do or do not wear sunglass.

But I mean some, some eye conditions require sunglasses because there's light sensitivity there and they need to protect their eyes and others don't. And to be honest, I think if a sighted person has an opinion on whether a vision impaired person needs sunglasses or not is it's really none of their business.

Yeah. But are you do. Are you suffering from sensitivity, Oren, or are you completely.

Well, I'm a sensitive soul.

Besides that. Mr. Oren, I have to sleep every.

Oh no. I know.

You sound like my dad. He then all those sits in the sun and then he's complaining and sometimes not. You know, what the heck.

No, I don't. I don't need the sunglasses. But I'm wearing. I wear them out.

Yeah.

Wear them a lot more the metas now than I. Yeah. Yeah.

Ever wore your other ones?

Yeah, but it's Not. It's not.

I was never wearing sunglasses, to be honest.

No, but it was one of the, I think one of the messages, or maybe it was the presenter said that somebody, his neighbor came into the, to their house recently and they've known their neighbor for, for years and he was wearing his glasses, his metal glasses, as it happened.

And in the house.

In the house. And the neighbor said, oh, I never knew your sight was that bad.

Hilarious. That's funny. So it's like an indicator of bad sight. Whereas if you don't. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. That's funny.

So that'd be very interesting to know. Blind Guys Chat at gmail dot com. Yes, I know what you, what you think. Yes.

Because I know some people that do wear sunglasses if it's bright or if they're in a very well lit area like it.

And I know also some. Well, one of my blind colleagues. Well, we had him also on the show. Mark Reinhoven.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

He, he is wearing sunglasses, but that's because he thinks that his eyes don' look nice.

I would worry about this.

Yeah, yeah, he had surgery on them, you know, so, so it really. Yeah, so. So that's why he always covered his, his, his eyes.

You can email blind guys chat gmail.com or tweet us at Blind Guys Chat if you have any comments or questions.

Now, ladies and gentlemen, time for our guest. And we are very privileged. Privileged, very, very privileged indeed to have a woman who lives in a place that makes great coffee.

Yep.

So we've been told. Because Clodagh wants to go to Portland, Oregon. And in Portland, Oregon, at the moment, the only person who's there is Deborah Erickson, and she's from the Blind Kitchen. So listen up now, folks, and in particular you, Clauda, because me, this is about cooking, okay? So to learn this.

Hello. When is the last time you touched as much as a wooden spoon in our kitchen?

Hold on a second, hold on a second.

It's all starting now.

Who made toast this morning, huh?

For yourself?

Well, if you were there.

Okay, let's not have a fight. Let's not have a fight. No, no, no, no.

I feel like I'm intruding.

No, you're not.

So, Deborah, tell us. First of all, this is the most important question you're ever going to be asked in your life. So take your time answering this. Okay? What's the weather like in Portland, Oregon right now?

It's actually in the 60s and it's clear. That's kind of unusual.

Very good.

Okay, we're going.

What's 60s in real money?

Real money?

15 and a half.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

60 is 15 and a half.

And is it true that it always rains in Portland?

It rains a lot. It really does. We don't get big torrential showers hardly ever, like maybe once a year, but we get these drizzles and sprinkles, and so we get less inches per year than a lot of places. But it. But it. It does sprinkle often.

We'd feel very at home there, I think.

And it's also very good for the nature then, because that. That rain is very fertile, you know, it is better than those big hoses in a way, you know.

Well, is that the reason for. There's good coffee in Portland?

Oh, it's probably part of it. Plus, we don't get much snow or anything here, and it stays green all year round. Yeah. So it's probably a lot like Ireland then.

Anyway, Deborah, you have a company called TheBlindKitchen.com which not only you sell utensils and such for the blind folks, but you are, I'm told, a brilliant cook. Is that correct?

Well, I actually have a culinary degree. I was the only blind student in culinary school, so I had to pass the test. So objective people say that I'm a pretty good cook. Yeah.

Oh, and what is your favorite meal, then? To cook? What is your. Because how. What. What do you want to cook for us? Yeah, yeah.

So yesterday, here in the United States, it was Easter, so.

Yeah.

That's a big celebration.

So you cooked an egg, did you. You cooked a chocolate egg?

I didn't. Oh, no, I've got to be fancier than that. I made lamb meatballs. Well, they were actually domes, and it turned out beautifully. Wow.

Oh, what kind of herbs do you combine them with, Deborah, with. Is it also with honey expert here?

Would you. What kind of herbs did she.

Yeah, yeah, I prepared myself this time, or I'm always hungry. Sorry.

Well, you can do different flavor profiles. What I did yesterday was garlic and chives and rosemary and oregano, because it's. A Lamb can be pretty assertive, so you want to have something.

Assertive is a very good word, very diplomatic word for lamb. Deborah, can I ask you just to tell us your story, like, what led you to your culinary degree and all of that?

First of all, I am blind. I have retinitis pigmentosa and very little vision left in. And one eye only. Not nothing really usable. But I was always a teacher, and I lost my vision in my early 50s is when I was diagnosed, when I was 28. But it really went south when I was in my early 50s and I had taught all my life, so I thought, oh, and I want to teach adults, not children, thank you very much.

That's a whole different.

That's torture is what that is. And I have two sons and I love them, but I don't want to teach them anymore. So I was taking orientation, mobility, you know, I'm learning braille, all the blind classes. And I was taking a meal prep class because I was not much of a cook. I could open a can or read a box and follow directions, but I just wasn't that interested in it. And so then I was taking a cooking class with a woman who's my mentor and now my dear friend, and she was my colleague when I taught there alongside her later. But I. The light bulb went on in my head and I said, I, I would like teaching this. I'm really having fun, I'm learning stuff. And then the light bulb went off and I thought, I don't know how to cook, I don't know how to teach cooking. And so then I had to problem solve. And, well, you go to school and learn how they teach cooking and learn it yourself. And that's how I ended up going to culinary school.

Amazing. And was that a year or two years or how long was it?

It was a year. A year program.

Okay.

Yeah.

You did it alongside all the cites and got exams and everything.

The young cites. Thank you very much.

All right, fantastic.

Brilliant.

What about cookbooks in that, when you're learning, did you have the cookbooks in. In recipe books, in braille?

No, they actually got the, the culinary books in MP3 files, so I was able to listen to them electronically. But I had real problem with recipes because I couldn't have my phone in. It had to be in a Ziploc bag or something. Or cellophane. And the virtual cursor would keep getting.

Oh, yeah, Stolen.

Yeah.

Sliding.

I'd lose my place grease or the flower for hygiene. Exactly. Any contact. So then. And I couldn't read a book, obviously. And I couldn't have a laptop or an iPhone or iPad or anything. So we ended up. They had to tell me the recipe the night before and then I would do a document, the. Step by step. Then I put it on my Victor reader stream because that's very tactile. So there was some problem solving going on. You're like, I had no idea how I was going to do that. Yeah, that's interesting.

That they were able. They were prepared to work with you and try to find a solution with you, which is great.

Yeah, they were. So any university that receives any federal funding has to have an assistive department where they help to try and make you competitive. And it was things like that. They couldn't let me. They. I was held to the same standards, for sure. And one of the other standards I was held to is time. I'm a much slower cook than. I'm sure there's fast cooks out there. I'm not one of them. I. And so. And I'm not apologizing for it, I never finished the practicals on time. And the other thing about that, that was kind of funny was if you work in a commercial kitchen, there's a lot of very strong communication. It's part of culture, not related to vision loss. You know, I've got a knife, hot pot, corner door, you know, like that. Yeah, but when those practicals come. Yeah, exactly. I'm behind you. Yeah, but when the practicals came where we had to do it in a certain amount of time, all those rules went out the windows. People are flying around because they want to get finished on time, and they.

Probably feel a bit competitive as well. Do they?

Oh, absolutely. It is. It's just like the cooking shows. It's. It's kind of crazy. Five minutes. And so I. And I'm the only cane user. This is not a fun place to be right now. But I just, you know, they said, if you can't finish on time, finish strong. So I had to focus on the seasoning and the presentation because there are ways that I use to make food attractively presented and consistent plating. And so I focused on that, and I didn't worry about the points. I less. I lost less points for being late than I would have if it hadn't been seasoned well or if it wasn't an attractive presentation.

Were you not given extra time during your practical exams because you were blind and you knew, and they obviously knew, you're not going to be able to cook this in the same time. As somebody who cited. Were you not given extra time?

No, no. I wanted that. I thought that would be a reasonable accommodation. But if you think about it, it's not. Because if you come into my restaurant, they're training me to own a restaurant or work in a restaurant. And if you come in and you order lamb meatballs, not with the chives.

And not with the garlic, because that would kill me.

Okay, we'll tell you about that.

Leave those out for you. I do want to hear that story. But you're sitting at the table, you order it. It's a special of the day. Hour and a half later, you wave your wait stuff down. Hey, order down. But Deborah, she's blind.

But Deborah, you'd have a lot of the prep done in advance. So really all doing at that point, if you're in a restaurant, like, you'll have done your prep at like, you know, three in the afternoon. So by the time dinner services is. Is coming, you'll be just throwing stuff in a pan and cooking it off. You're not going to be doing all the work.

You're. You're exactly right about that. But they had to keep the playing field level. No one had even one piece of equipment. You had to go get your setup, you had to get your cutting boards, all of that. And that's when all that crazy running around was doing. So they would not let me do anything different than the other students.

So how do you deal sharp with sharp knives? Do you cut?

She has no hands at the moment.

So, I mean, they regrow every knife.

How did I used to do it? I just counted. They're all here. They're all here. We have a thing called a cut glove, and it is relatively thin. It's a cut resistant glove. And it literally. I can hold up my palm in presentations wearing that glove. And I run the knife back.

No, no.

Across my palm.

Oh, God.

Never cut through it. Won't cut through it can't.

No, I know, but my knees are going really wobbly.

Oh, we do it again. Okay, please repeat, Deborah. Oh, this is a nice one.

So it's a cut glove. Is this cut love just on one hand or on both hands?

It's on one hand, the hand holding the food, because the one holding the knife is safe. If you got three fingers around the handle and the other two are pinching the spine, that one should be safe. And if it's not feeling, though, do.

You get the same feeling when you're wearing the glove? Like you're holding a piece of meat and you're cutting them. It must be a very thick glove.

No, it's not thick at all. No, no. There's different levels of thickness. So if I was a butcher, that's much more like chainmail. But this one's relatively thin. And the truth is I don't wear when I'm cutting because I had to learn to go faster. I needed to learn how to do it. And so. But I spent hours and hours on my knife Skills for culinary school. Most people don't do that. So this is better if you're. If you're new to cooking or whatever. It's good for that. But where I always wear that glove is when I'm grading foods like cheese into a box grater. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

Knuckle skin, that. It's just not needed in any recipe. So I wear that all the time.

Well, it's extra flavor. I don't know.

Human. And.

And. And by the way, because what I do also as a workaround, you know, to cut meat some or. Yeah. Or I use a pair of scissors also sometimes, you know.

Right. Or pizza. That can be pizza.

Yeah, yeah.

But I use scissors. I use scissors a lot. Like, I made a. A mint lemon yogurt sauce to go with the lamb meatballs. No garlic, thank you very much. I. I take the leaves of the mint and put them in a little dish and then just invert the scissors upside down and clip, clip, clip, clip, snip. It cuts it beautifully and it holds it all in one spot for me.

That sounds amazing.

Oh, that's. Oh, scissors are good.

No apologies.

I thought that I was odd, but it is quite a. I sound like a pro.

Do you do much cooking, Jan?

Sorry?

Do you do much cooking?

Yeah, every day.

Really? There you go. Oren, did you hear that?

Sorry. What?

I think there's a bad communication line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A bad conn.

But what's the. Just. Okay, so we know I'm not a cook. What. Where. Where does one. Where does one start something for dinner, let's say, or lunch or dinner.

Toast. Just kidding.

He can do toast.

And he can do porridge on the stove top.

No, he does it in the microwave.

Oh, no to God, no. In the microwave.

It's good, though.

On the stove, you know.

See, there's a combination of patience, zero experience, and zero will to do it.

But how do you operate the microwave, Mr. Orange?

Well, I've got a bump on. On the microwave.

First of all, I would cook in the oven because then once the door is closed, the heat is.

You can't see it. That's good. Yeah, I like that idea.

You're exposed to it more. So I'd start in the oven.

You check whether the light is burning or not. You know.

Just like the fridge.

Okay, so the oven.

Right. Okay.

What kind of stuff would he cook in the oven, do you think?

Oh, I cook bacon in the oven. I cook a whole pound. And then. And that way, first of all, you don't have to Bacon spatters and stuff. If you're cooking on the stovetop, it can be messy. You cook it all in the oven and then when you take it out, you put it on paper towels. And my husband and I, he would eat that whole pound of bacon if I didn't hide it from him. So what do I do is I take out two pieces or four pieces or whatever and for. For us to eat that day, and then I roll up the other ones in that paper towel, put them in a plastic bag and put them in the freezer. So the next time we're having.

Madame, may I ask if I could just cut across you there? You put it in the oven. Now, have you got a special oven? Like, how do you know when it's. When. How do you know when it's up to temperature? How do you know when it's done? When you smell it and it's burning, that's. You think it's done? Yeah.

Make a note of that. And don't cook it that long next time. Exactly.

Oh, I love Deborah. She's so practical.

Really? Yeah.

But Deborah, it's possible, though, because I know on your website you said, you know, you'd like to encourage people who've lost their sight back into cooking. But if somebody's never been in cooking in the first place, where do they start? That's the question. So you reckon the stovetop isn't the way to go?

Yeah, it's getting comfortable with being in front of heat. Because if you are standing in front of a flame and you aren't getting. Your adrenaline's not, and you're scared, you're not sure what to do with that. But if you weren't scared, you wouldn't probably last very long in this world. So it's learning to manage those fears and get comfortable with them. One of the questions I often get asked is, how do you know if your pan is centered on a heat source? Once the heat's on and the pan's hot, what if it lets you off?

Are you using then a gas stove or an electrical stove?

Let's assume for the moment that we're using a gas stove, because we are.

Okay, well, it works the same. It works the same on any stove except induction. So the thing is, what, you just got to use the principle that you can touch the top rim of a very hot pan, just tap it and you pull your finger away. You're not going to get burnt. You just touch it for a second and you can do that all the way around. So if I If my pan is on there and I can touch it all the way around and it. And it's equally hot all the way around, then I'm probably centered. But let's say I'm stirring that porridge that you put in the microwave. Stirring the porridge and I accidentally knock it off center. Let's say like at 10:00 now.

Yeah, yeah.

Now when I touch the top of the pan, I don't know that I've knocked it off. At 10 o'clock, it's going to be much hotter than like at 4 o'clock because the heat's now climbing the side of the pan.

Yeah.

Okay.

And it's going to be hotter. So then I'm just going to nudge it where. Towards where it's hot.

Yeah.

And keep checking. Oh, nope, that's not quite yet. Nudge it a little bit again. So that's how you can do it safely. Now, you can't touch food. You can't liquid, because when you pull your hand away, the food will come with your finger and it'll continue to burn you.

Is it all right when doing that? And you know, taking all care and safety elements into account, is it all right to use a dog's paw for.

That or an O'Neill?

Ask your dog. I'm not sure the health, the health people would pass that either. I'm sure your dog is very clean. Yeah, but, yeah, so once, once my.

Finger is going around the pan and I'm not burning myself, I'm centered.

Yeah. As long as it's equally hot at all points around the top of the pan.

Right. So what are we throwing?

What kind of hand gloves are you wearing then, Deborah?

So I'm not wearing gloves when I'm doing that.

Okay. Okay.

But I do have heat gloves that I wear. No, no. When I'm taking some out of the oven, you bet I'm wearing gloves.

I've seen those in the photo and they're the exact same as we have at home. Warren. They're the very same.

Okay, but I'm not. But I'm not clear. I'm not clear.

We.

All we've done so far is getting there so far is put a blooming pan on the thing and we know it's centered. So what are we throwing into the pan?

What do you guys want?

I can help a couple of. I'd like to throw a couple of sausages, fried egg, and maybe a bit of fried bread.

Okay. Fried. Fried egg. Now that's liquid foods. And they are a challenge because you pour pancake batter in the pan.

Oh, my good stuff. Stop being the messer in the class.

Sorry, I'm confused.

So I've got me egg. I smashed me egg into me pan. Right.

But not yet. First of all, you're gonna put an egg ring in the pan. And that is made out of silicone. It's about three inches around, about the size of an English muffin. And it has a little handle on it. And so you put it in the pan, you grease it, you put it in the pan and then you put the egg in it instead of the egg. Once it's in that circle, it's contained and you don't have to.

I've never used that one.

An egg ring. Okay.

I know where you can get one. Yeah. So you, you. Then you've got that two inch handle sticking up from it. The reason the handle is on there is that now I can hover above the egg and find it. And I do this live on one of my video. Well, on video in real time. And I talk about it. Then I use that, that little two inch thing that's sticking up. And I like my white cane. It guides me down and I can put my bare fin that egg ring and hold it without having any heat protection on my hands. It's high. It's only about a half an inch up, but it's high enough, far enough away from heat. And then I can take my spatula and guide it underneath it because I know exactly where that egg is. My fingers are touching the top of the ring and then I can slide it on. I can lift it. Ooh. Is it hanging off a little bit? Yeah, I can tell it's hanging off. I set it back down and then I can reposition the spatula. And then once I've got it right, flipping it's a little harder. I like them sunny side up, probably because it's a little harder. But if I want to flip it now I know I have it on the spatula. I know it's completely on there and it's still a little bit of guesswork. It's not the perfect system, but if I lift straight up and then turn immediately180, chances are it's going to fall back very close to where it was in the pan.

Very good.

Okay, so how do we know what. So our egg is cooking away. Now we're throwing some sausages, because I love sausages. On the. Onto the pan. Yeah.

Different.

Then I think it might be the same pan. No.

It depends if they're gonna it depends on their cooking time. Is your sausage already cooked and you're just reheating?

Oh, no, no, no.

Yeah, your egg will be dead. If you put them in at the same time, your egg will be dead. So you want to cook them. Let's say your egg takes. Takes 2 1/2 minutes to cook or 3 minutes. It depends on how you like your yolk. Do you like it runny or.

Jamie, egg. I'd like a runny egg.

Okay, that might be two minutes then.

Yeah, you've heard it. Now folks on blind guys chat. Takes two minutes to fry an egg.

I like it a little bit more done, you know, so I take two and a half.

Well, it depends on how high your heat is, what kind of pan you're using.

Exactly.

Talk to me.

So you did not hear from Deborah. It takes two minutes every time for everybody.

Deborah, don't mind these. They're in troublemaker mode. I can tell.

Feed him some breakfast or dinner or something.

Listen, he's actually well covered for breakfast and lunch. It's dinner is the problem. And the thing is, part of my issue, and this is, this is purely personal, is that Orin can't eat anything from the onion family. So no onion, no garlic, no shallots.

Why not?

Not because it makes him very, very sick.

Oh, okay. No, no, we don't want that.

Brings me to hospital.

Yeah, he.

Ah, no, we don't want that. No, no.

So no chives? No chives, nothing. It's heartbreaking because it's where all the flavor lives.

But what substitutions have you come. Would you. Would you be able to suggest something that, for Clota that she could use as a substitution that would taste you.

When you're cooking your dinner now?

Yes, that's what I'm about to say. That would give me a bit of flavor and you know. But wouldn't be onion or garlic.

Yeah. So those are called aromatics and they are a special family. But they aren't the only flavor inducing things. I mean, any herbs or things like that could add flavor. Salt and pepper are huge. I could live just on salt and pepper if I had to. So could I. I couldn't live without him.

He won't take pepper. He doesn't like anything.

Let's not be banging on about me.

I love him dearly, but he's very. He's very hard to feed is all I can say.

It sounds like it.

Anyway. Anyway. Do you know what, Deborah? I think it's fascinating and I. I've had a good look at your, your Store. So just for anyone listening, TheBlindKitchen.com is Deborah's website, and she has a shop on there that you can buy various specialized equipment which is really useful. Like, some of it is normal stuff that anyone would have, like measuring cups and spoons and things like that. But some of it is kind of, you know, quite clever. Like, the pair that you have is really very clever.

Yeah. So it's interesting. We have over 90 tools on there now, and about 90 of them, 90% of them, are not meant for blind people. Like those ED rings. Nobody made those for blind people. They were made for anyone to be able to do them that was having problems and wanted them to be breakfast sandwiches. You know, the perfect shape and stuff. But the measuring cups, but everything is adaptive for cooking with vision loss. And so the measuring cups and spoons, it's interesting you brought that up because we have wet ones and dry ones, and they're stainless steel, so at first glance, they probably do look just like any other one set of four, but they actually have bumps that are part of the stainless steel handle. They're not bump dots. They're not tactile paint. And you count them. So if I have four, if I count four dots, I know I'm holding a quarter cup or a quarter teaspoon.

Oh, that's good.

If it's three, it's gonna be a third of a cup. Yeah. My brother's a metal worker and he had those arranged to have those. And the other nice thing about those is the wet ones are more like a ladle. The handle points up towards the ceiling.

Why would you need a ladle? So that way, wet or a dry measuring cup.

So if you're measuring dry ingredients, that's straightforward. You just wipe your finger across the top, you know, and get the flour in or whatever. With the wet ones, it's trickier because you have to hold the spoon flat. And then you pour and you check with your finger. You pour and you check and it's going to spill. It won't be full until.

Okay, but here's my problem with that. And Claudia will attest to this. When I'm making my porridge and pouring my milk into my cup for my measuring cup, for my porridge before I spill it into the bowl, Claudia is very often telling me that I'm not holding the. The measuring cup level.

So these are. So if you need like a half a cup of milk, you would take that cup and remember the handles going up toward the ceiling so it'll fit inside a Little spouted pitcher or measure another, you know, like a glass pitcher. Yeah, exactly. And then you're going to take your milk and you're going to pour it into that until it completely covers the cavity of the cup or the spoon that you're filling and your hands are free. Then you can just pick up on that handle. And the way we transfer liquids in our society is using a ladle like soup. So now you lift it up, you know it's complete. The right accurate measurement because you didn't hear anything fall out, you can transfer to the cup and then you've. But now you've got this overflow. And so you can use a funnel to direct it back into the bottle or the box, wherever you got it. So there's. It's. So you know it's accurate and you know there's no waste.

Very good. I like that.

And what other kind of tools have you got on your website then that would be good for. For me? Ah.

The number one that I think everyone should have is called. We call it a work tray and it's basically a cafeteria tray, kind of like you probably had when you were in the hospital, where it's got the rimmed edges. I use them for cutting boards. I use them to organize food. Not dream of measuring milk without having that tray under it because it's got the race size. So it's more likely if I do accidentally spill. Everybody does. It's more likely to be contained within that tray. Easier to clean up and maybe even salvaged if I can direct the contents back into a funnel or something on.

Your website as well as the implements are there because I know you have video feed on the Insta. Yoki thing. The I. Isn't it that right? Do you want Insta.

Instagram.

Instagram right now.

Tony keeps sending me Instagram messages and I say, you know, I open it and it's like, I don't know how you played them. So anyway, newfangled. So where do you have. Are you. Are you. You do have an Instagram feed. So are your rest. Are you. Are you doing recipes for blindies all the time or is that on your website? Or is there a cookbook that we can go to?

Here's a secret. Secret. I can't see. I hate Instagram. But I have to have it for my social. I pay other people to do it. And. And every image is. Is described alt text. So very good. If you do use it or you have low vision, you can see it. But I pay people to do that for Me, I'm too busy.

Oh, it's really professional or.

Oh, it's very. Oh, the other thing about the. If you go to the website, any of these tools I've talked about.

Yeah.

There's an audio described the.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, it goes with it and they come labeled in large print and braille.

Love it.

So everybody has access to it. Yeah.

She has a crisp, a crust crimper.

Well, I don't want to get personal about it. I mean, the poor woman, she might be in pain with her crust.

I wanna, I wanna buy half of these. I think they're amazing.

What's a crust crimper?

It. It's. If you're making a pie and you're. If pastry and you, you, You've got like pastry underneath and pastry on top and pastry.

I don't want to make a pie. Thing I want to make is a lasagna. Is that something that I could make? If I had all the implements that you have on your website and followed your cookbook, would that be something I could cook, Deborah?

Absolutely. It would be something you could cook. Yeah. I mean, so I'm not selling pots and pans as a rule. I'm just selling like, like. So you talked about a wooden spoon earlier. The wooden spoon is adaptive, and I'll tell you why. Because if you're cooking, let's say you're making your tomato sauce with an attitude adjuster. Yeah. But. But this one, the reason it's adaptive if it. Only if it has a long handle. Because then if you're making that tomato sauce for your lasagna.

Yeah.

First of all, the spoon can't fall down in the pan unless it's a really big pan because it's about 17 inches long. Also, it's easy to make a mess when you're dripping back and forth. You have to take this steel spoon out of the pan, blah, blah, blah. A wooden spoon doesn't conduct heat, so you can just leave it in. And if you're a little bit nervous about the hot pan and getting too close to it, you can hover above the pan and find the end of the wood spoon first to help orient you where it's at. So even most of this stuff is. Yeah, it's mainstream.

Yeah. But also, when you are cooking, you know, as a blind person, you. You should not be scared of getting burned in a way, you know, because that happens.

No, no, it's. It, it will. It happens to people that can see per. Well, but the thing is, all the time. Yeah. You just gotta manage those fears and try and minimize it. And I taught blind people how to cook. Some of them who never stood in front of a stove before. And the thing is, I find they're less likely to cut themselves or less likely to burn themselves because they're paying attention. Exactly.

I ended up once in hospital when I was frying meat and then I turned it over. Over and I. I had a little bit too much butter and then it was spreading over the. Over the edge and then it was touching my hands. So it was really. That was a little bit too much. So I had to go to the. To the hospital.

You needed a negran. That's what you needed there for that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, now. Yeah, possibly or I should not be so.

And Deborah, may I ask, are on your website. Are. Do you deliver to outside of the U.S. we do do.

We've shipped to. Okay. I've shipped to the UK many times. Many times to Canada as well. And it's free shipping. It's free matter for the blind.

Are you also not ending up with terrorists?

What?

No. She's not ending up with terifs.

Oh, let's don't get me started. Canada's a good hot soup. You don't do this to your friends.

No.

Lucky us.

Lucky us.

Lucky us.

The website [email protected] and you're also on the Insta Yoki, as is it the blind Kitchen as well. On the Insta Yoki, whatever it's called.

Yeah, yeah, we're in my space. Okay.

I told you he's not. He's not with the current today at all.

In terms of these, my husband still carries a flip phone, so if that.

Gives you a clue, he's right. He's absolutely spot on. Yeah.

So we're on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. And I wonder maybe we. If you. If we might consider doing a little. Little spot every. Every month or so and. And.

Oh, that'd be amazing. Deborah, would you do that?

Oh, yeah. I'd love to have tips and tricks. You know this because how do you. You know all those little things you are. You used to do?

Well, actually, we could do the. We could. We could pass on to Deborah because she, she probably doesn't know how to butter her bread properly.

She knows exactly how to butter her bread properly.

But you.

But I could always learn. You tell her what your trick is.

So my. So my trick is. And I left it actually, Gary Hoff from South Africa wrote this in, but I use it all the time now is I get those little. What I call those little hotel little foils of butter. Butter. And I open that up and basically the foil becomes my knife. And then on the. On the bread, I. I just do a kind of an X from one corner to the other, and then the other corner to the other corner. And then I kind of fill in the bits in the middle. And that's how I butter my bread. And then I hand over my foil to my. To Larry, the guide dog, who's waiting for the end of the butter.

He loves butter. He gets to lick the foil.

Have you got a better tip?

Well, I've got a couple of things. One is we have a butter slice. Slicer that cuts butter, a stick of butter into those slices, and then you just put them in the refrigerator and grab them as you need them.

Very good.

You don't have to pull a knife out or foil or anything. But now your dog's gonna hate me. But the other thing you can do is take a pat of butter, put it on, like a little saucer, and then microwave it and melt it, and then you just lay the bread in it.

Oh, that's a good idea.

That's a good idea. And the other tip I've learned is very early on, I learned this tip about cooking was when you're pouring your searing cereal into one of those. One of those very large let's. Those Tupperware storage devices, you know, where you. You hold your cereal for the morning, it's best when you, you know, if. If the Tupperware is slightly smaller than the amount of cereal you're putting into the Tupperware. It's probably best not to move the cereal and the Tupperware when the cereal is now falling on the counter and on the floor and. And it's best. Probably best not to move it to the sink. Don't pick up. As my wife said, it's like trying to move a volcano after the volcano has erupted.

Well, you know, next time do it over a work tray.

Yeah, there you go.

Your dog's gonna hate me. Your dog probably ate all that cereal.

Yeah, you're right.

Come here, lads. Deborah has a recipe for Irish soda bread on her website.

I do?

Yeah. And it looks good. So I think. I think that might have to be your first recipe that you share.

Oh, yeah.

You know what? I think we should do a monthly. Let's teach him to cook.

Let's.

I think that's a brilliant idea, Deborah. Come on, Oren.

Oren. In The Kitchen.

I think the name, in keeping with blind guys chat, I think the name is a bit bland. So. So I'll just add in one word and I'll. And it'll be, let's teach the idiot yet how to cook.

Oh, no, we'll have to do a jingle and everything.

And everything. Yeah. When I cook it and do it after each recording, I'll send it over to you and you can.

Oh, wow.

Tell me you know you can taste it.

I think I'm good. I think I'm good.

Yeah, me too.

Yeah.

Not that it wouldn't taste good, but it'll probably be green before it got, I'm sure. And hairy.

That's right.

Right.

Well, Deborah, listen, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. I think we will do. We've had some so much fun. Thank you for taking our jokes with the spirit that they're intended in. And we shall hopefully make this a monthly little session where you're. You're giving me tips about what to cook this month. And, uh, we'll try and see how long it takes me to burn the house down.

Yeah, we have something for that too, but we'll talk about that next, next time.

Brilliant, Deborah.

Thank you so much. Well, that's all we have time for. Thanks very much to Deborah. That was brilliant. Deborah Erickson, Blind Kitchen.

Well, and to be honest, looking forward to taste something.

I'm looking forward to already cooking me something.

Keep looking forward. So we'll see.

And I don't tell anything to Chantel.

We'll see you in two weeks, folks.

Yeah.

Don't forget to email us. Okay. Yo.