#133: No ramble like a snarky ramble!

Foreign.

Welcome to Blind Guys Chat, where Oren, Emile.

Hello.

Yang Bloom.

Hello. And Mohammed Lashear. Hi there.

Talk about the A to Z of life.

Well, hello, ladies and gentlemen, and you're very welcome to episode 133 of Blind Guys Chat.

Yep.

Thank you so much.

133 already?

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah.

So you're only here a last week, Mo, We've been here since the beginning.

No, it seems like ages. He is big friends with Hector. You know, swimming in the pool.

Every episode feels like 10 to me. So I'm at.

Not a good sign.

You know who I have to call out here because she's a big fan of yours? Our dear friend Patricia Sweeney.

Oh, yeah.

Wife of Professor John Sweeney.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Big fan of who's Mo.

And she is a huge fan of Mose. Good. Oh, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Fan club. I had fans started. That's. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think. I think myself and Jana and Claudia could very much stay in the background and, you know, you could talk for an hour, Mo, and you'd be hitting the right spot for everyone.

I'm not sure that that's actually true. And don't say it too often before I start believing it. Start annoying the people around me.

Now that I've remembered, actually. Thank you for reminding me. Me brain, it was just kind of working today. Patricia, do you remember we were talking about your issues with your glass. Your windshield glass on your Tesla?

Oh, yeah.

Jan. Patricia also has a Tesla, and she was saying that during the summer, the sunroof cracked.

Oh, my God.

Oh.

Of the model Y. I can't remember.

Which one she has. It looks kind of froggy at the front. I don't know which model it is.

Okay.

It does. You know, the eyes and stuff.

I don't think we can identify cars by their looks, so we don't know.

That's true. No, but I can't identify cars by Teslas anyway because they don't. They rarely say what they are. They just. You're supposed to know. And I'm not that big an Elon fan. That, in fact, I'm not at all an eel. I'm the opposite of a neon fan.

We are also not an Elon Musk fan.

Yeah, not really. No.

So all I can say is it's the one that looks like a frog. Did we say that our car broke its little windscreen as well this summer?

Yeah, that's. That's what you told. Yeah, you told us.

Yeah, well, it's now been infected. Well, not. I wouldn't say infested, but the outdoor part of the car, so they're like the little spoiler at the back and all that has been colonized. I'll say not. Infested with very large spiders with really strong webs. Oh, yeah.

Oh, wow. So even if you drive, they don't fall.

Are you already in Halloween style or something?

Oh, big time.

Yeah.

You know, Halloween is an Irish thing.

Oh, yeah.

It's a Gaelic thing. Right. So it's both Irish and Scottish then.

It's. Well, it's a pagan thing. Well, yeah, it's a pagan festival. So us Irish, before we were Christians, we were pagans. And so the whole, like, all the festivals, all the seasons, all had their own festivals. Samhain and all that. And. Yeah, so it's an Irish thing. We invented it before anyone else. And then the Americans went nuts and did the.

Oh, yeah. You know, the trick or treatment killed everyone.

The Americans did what the Americans do, which is commercialize. Commercialize. Commercialize.

We do like Americans. But yeah, like, this was originally. It was a harvest festival. Basically, it was the end of the harvest.

Okay.

To celebrate the. The harvesting.

Yeah, exactly.

I wonder where the horror team then came from, because from what I heard, like, All Hallows Eve was, you always, like, put up some sort of defense against spirits or something like that.

Yeah, it was the end of the. It was the official end of the year. And the new year was then, you know, the winter and where, you know, everything would hibernate. But the idea was that there was a lot of energy, there was a.

Lot of food.

At that time of year. And so the. My mom used to put it, the veil was thin. So the veil between the two worlds, between the living world and the. The.

Ah, yes.

Spiritual world was thin and so that people could pass from one to the other easily. But it wasn't seen as a bad thing, you know?

No.

Back in the day. Whereas now it's, you know, all scary.

Yeah. It's the black scene then, in a way.

Yeah. Talking about scary. Can I talk about WhatsApp?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

That'S true.

We need to put a over 18 sign over this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you using then? It's with the meta glasses.

Yeah. So we're just putting it separate. Just putting out a disclaimer for something that happened to me this week. And in case I forget, I have to thank Mr. Blind Gordon for his help. So what. What was happening was I was using my meta glasses now. I've been having some problems with WhatsApp for a couple of weeks where WhatsApp is not working on my PC. In other. Not that it's not working, but it's not working. It's not working with Jaws. Rather, I'm not giving out about Jaws. This is a WhatsApp problem. And I understand there is something wrong with the latest update with WhatsApp. And if you've any feedback on this, let us know, please. Blind guys chat gmail.com but basically an update was done without my knowledge, I think. And that's why it's not automatically yours now. Automatically, yeah. But I was then using my metaglasses and I was asking. I had lost something and I did my usual WhatsApp video call with Cloda on my meta glasses. Yeah. And I was pressing double pressing the top button on the metaglasses to send the message to cloud it to activate the camera. And she was saying she wasn't hearing or wasn't seeing the request and I wasn't hearing in my glasses.

Oh, the activation, the sound.

So I was trying this for a couple of times. We hung up and we tried again and it wasn't working. And wasn't working. And kind of getting really frustrated because I was having this problem already with what's up on the PC. Yeah. And I thought I had a brainwave.

Now you need to be careful. Yeah. Now. Now it's getting scared.

I'm not saying it was a good brainwave. Oh, really? I did ask our dear friend Derry Lawler and he. He said unfortunately he wasn't using. Long time met us for. For the metal glasses. So much so he wasn't using it. And then I asked our dear friend Mr. Blind Gordon in Scotland because he's got.

Otherwise known as Anthony Gordon. Right. Like that's his actual name.

We know his nickname.

You know, his actual name is not Blind.

Oh, really?

Oh, birth certificate.

Blind Gordon.

This is Blind Gordon, you know. You know, also Mrs. Blind Gordon, you know, and also.

But anyway, to be very good to him, he said came back to me very quickly and he said he had an experience problem because he hadn't used WhatsApp video for a while. And so he. But he said he'd try it and he tried it and he said, sure enough, you're right, it is not working. So I got. So that was great because I knew then, well, I'm not going mad. That's a relief today anyway and thinking about tomorrow. So I got on to Meta. I got onto Meta support line, which took forever. And sent him an email. And of course, I'm still waiting on a response from Meta support. But in the meantime, Mr. Blind Anthony Gordon followed it up even further and he said, I've just done an update of WhatsApp on my phone. And he said the video calling is now working again with meta glasses. So I initially thought it was a meta Glasses issue, but actually, again, it turned out to be a WhatsApp issue. If you're having this problem, folks, where the video. Video calling is not working with your WhatsApp on the Meta ray bans, I'd suggest that you haven't done so already updated WhatsApp on the app Store, and it should work then. It's certainly working for me now.

So I will say that on your iPhone, if you have automatic updates turned on, your iPhone does not update all apps that have an update available.

Exactly.

Typically it picks like four or five of them and it updates those. So it can take a little while before you actually get your updates. So what I typically do is I'll go into the App Store, go into the. Press the little account button on the top of the interface, and then refresh the list of updates. Because if you do that, all the updates become visible, rather than only three or four. And so, yeah, it's very easy to not have the latest version running on your phone.

There's also a button, update all.

Then, yeah, the button comes up update all. But if you don't refresh, Update all will not update the things that are not visible in that list.

That's correct.

So you have to refresh, otherwise it's not visible.

I was in Braille Book Club last week and a lot of people in our room were talking about iOS 26.

Yeah, well, that's why I like to comment on that one as well.

Yeah, yeah, please do. Because that's why I don't do automatic updates, because I wait for, you know, a couple of versions of the newest. The newest update to up.

That is different, though.

How is it different?

How is it different?

Right, so you have two updates. You have the OS update, which is iOS from 18 to 26, but you also have your app updates, WhatsApp version, blah, blah, blah. And I'm talking about automatic updates for your apps. For your iOS, if you have automatic updates turned on, your iPhone will typically warn you. It will say, tonight, I'm going to install this and that version. And from what I experience, that update comes in very late. So Apple will release an update and then your phone will warn you a couple weeks later that There is an update that it automatically is going to install. So that delay seems to be built in by default. But I'm not. I'm not sure on that. But for me at least it is now.

You explained it pretty well. Professor Mo.

Professor could talk. We don't need to be here.

No, no, no, exactly. Yeah, we, you know, we are artifacts. You know, or how did they call it? You know, ABBA is also not performing in. In. In in London anymore.

You help people by explaining stuff and they'll start like. Start like getting snarky about it. Unbelievable.

Are you calling Oren?

I was rambling and now I'm snarky.

Yeah, but I was quite positive.

Say. I will say no Ramble like a snarky Ramble or.

Well, there's the podcast name. Thanks very much.

Ramble. Snorky Ramble.

Yeah, Ramble like a snorky.

The blind snorkish.

You know.

Hey, that's snarky. It's with oh oh, oh, oh.

Snarky.

Okay.

Anyway, yeah, but not. But I, I don't like it so much. I got some issues when I use Siri when I. I still have an iPhone SE. You know the 20 something. So. So I. I've still this home button. It takes a couple of seconds when I have then the beep to talk to the operating system. I got several aspect or hiccups or. Or that the voice level is going up and down when I'm entering and then. Then the level is sometimes increasing then decreasing. That's annoying. Also that the focus is not always correct when you are typing etc. It is. Nah a little bit.

Is iOS 26.1. So you updated to 26.0.1.

Well, the latest I have.

Yeah yeah.

Is it already 01 and mo or point.

It's 0.0 0.1. Not yet.

Oh yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Point one will come I think in on the end of this month I think maybe or in beginning of November one of the two. But for now it's 26.0.1. I have not yet updated. I am. Well, that's a good thing. Yeah. Haven't done.

I was too, too quick I think I thought hey let's do it, you know.

But.

But I don't hear problems from TJO or. Or osily.

But.

But yeah, yeah, yeah.

That.

That might also be the se.

Yeah well I don't think it's just isolated to the SE because the couple of people that were talking about it last week in the book club. I was just saying I don't think they have ses. They've, they have modern, modern, modern stuff. So. And the focus thing and the, the voiceover thing, the, the audio thing was something I've, I've read about during the week. So I. Yeah, I don't think it's an SE issue, but I have two questions to ask about this and Mo's going to hate me asking the second one, but here's the first one. Well, actually, no, I know the answer to the first one, which is, why did they go from 18 to 26? And of course it was because they wanted everything to be in line with 26, with the versions of iOS or whatever for 2026 is what. I heard that. So all their gadgets. All that is correct. Are. Yeah. Which is just ridiculous.

Anyway, I mean, we did it back in 2018, right? We went from Jaws 18 to Jaws 2018, which was not at all confusing.

Not at all.

It was completely fine. But, you know.

Well, here's my second question.

Brace yourself, Mo.

It's a trip again. And I'm banging on about banging on getting up in me soapbox. It's a trillion dollar company. How on earth can you release something without the accessibility department saying, hold on a second, this has got big issues for accessibility.

So. So I don't hate this question at all. I don't. I don't see why. No, it's not. I mean, it's a question. I neither like nor hate it. It's a question, I think. Or, I mean, it's Apple, right? So I have no idea how they work internally. But what I would think, from what I've seen, mainstream companies and the way they treat accessibility, is that the accessibility department cannot say, this has so many problems. We're not releasing. There's no such power in the accessibility, in the accessibility department. And keep in mind, Apple has got a lot riding on this, right, because they've got their iPhone release and if they delay iOS 26, they have to delay their iPhone. That would be a huge, huge problem for them financially. Yes, they're a trillion dollar company, but if they, even for a second, if they don't release on time their OS and especially their phone, they're going to take quite a big hit, I think, on the markets because people are going to say, well, Apple is dropping the ball, what's going on? So I think the pressure for them is far too high to have any accessibility department tell them, no, don't release this. It has too many issues. Like, they will. I mean, credit where credit's due. They will Consider accessibility from the ground up, which means that that makes accessibility at Apple products better than most others. But I think now Microsoft does the same, Google does the same. So they've all learned from Apple. But in all fairness, Apple really did start it to really take it seriously themselves and build it themselves. So it's close to their core. Yes, but it's not at their core. At their core is their hardware and services.

Do you think that it would be a PR disaster if Apple were to do something completely out of the box, which is to say we're going to release iOS 2026 and for those of you who are going to use the accessibility features, we would strongly suggest that you do not upgrade for the moment because our accessibility team have found some issues and we would ask you to wait until 2026.01 or 27 or 26.1 or whatever. Do you think it would hurt them that much in their PR terms to say something like that to the, to the general public?

It's an interesting idea.

I don't see why they would do it. It wouldn't hurt them PR wise all that much. But I think accessibility is too broad a term to begin with. Like if you want to say that, then you should probably target either Voiceover users or users of a specific feature.

Because that's what I mean, not necessarily accessibility, but if there are enough people in their accessibility division to say there are major problems with this with regard to somebody when they're using Voiceover, then I would think for me, if Apple were to release a statement to say look, we really suggest you wouldn't if you're using Voiceover, just don't update to iOS 26 yet. There are some bugs in it that needs to be fixed. I would be thinking fair play to you because no other company will do that.

Well, the question though is how big are the actual problems we are encountering some of them. And I would need to look at the AppleViz report card because they do actually pretty thorough testing and what they're saying in terms of accessibility, I mean, Apple did say for a little while. Well, they didn't say it for a little while, but they did acknowledge a bug. And you know, appleviz was recommending you do not update where Voiceover just would not come up after you install 2026.0. So they addressed that problem in 26.0.1, but that was a big problem and they did acknowledge that that was an issue. And they will. And they did fix it quickly, but.

Only after the fact.

Yeah, but The. Yeah, but they didn't know before the fact. Right.

And in fairness.

Well, hold on there now. Now I've got it. Now I've got a real issue with a trillion dollar. With a trillion dollar company says that it has an accessibility or an accessibility division or whatever you're telling me, then I really want to know, and I've asked this question before, not just about Apple, but about Microsoft and about Google and about other companies. What the hell are the users in Apple in the accessibility department doing if you've got such a big problem that you release this iOS 26.0 and everybody gets it? You know, those testers who are working for Apple get it well before it's published and they don't go, hold on a second. Voiceover doesn't work here. I won't say anything about this. I'll keep quiet.

Yeah, so the answer to that is that that bug is very intermittent and so almost no one gets it. But when you get it, you're stuck. So it's very conceivable that all the testers at Apple did not get the problem. And once it got out in the wider world, because there's just a larger amount of people that can run into this problem, one of them or two of them or three of them or 10 of them or even 20 or 100 of them ran into this problem. And now, you know, this bug is known. But if you have 15 testers or 17 testers or 30 testers at Apple, it's very conceivable that when a bug does not always show up, it just didn't show up for any of them.

Yeah, you can't replicate everybody's setup and know.

Yeah, that doesn't sound. Yeah. So this is how software usually works in terms of bugs. Things show up for people and you as a developer go look at it and you're like, but I don't see this. And so you go back to the customer and say, hold on, I don't see this. So can you tell me exactly what your settings are like or what's your device? Or that's why they ask you all that information, because they can't have all configurations themselves. Maybe it's some sort of app that brought some sort of, you know, piece of data somewhere that then made voiceover trip over itself when you updated. And no, no people at Apple had that particular issue because they don't have the app on their test phones or on their own iPhones. So this is, it's very, it's, it's very complex. To find everything, even if it's that big, if it doesn't show up very often.

Yeah, yeah.

That's why we also have from Freedom Scientific, we installed the FS tool, you know, to really sen across all the details and all the settings etc, because it's so complex, you know.

Yeah, I can, I can understand that this with Visparo, absolutely. But, but I just cannot understand. And I, I, I understand, I understand your, your argument Mo that okay, their accessibility is not at their core. But they may have said it in the past and they may, they may, they may bullshit on about that, but again, for the amount of money this company is worth, somebody needs to grab, in my view, needs to grab the reins and if, you know, go redesign their accessibility department and be more involved at the design stage, more, you know, maybe they should look for maybe a case that, you know, it's, you know, it's one of these things, it's universal design. It's, you know, there's probably, you know, a coder somewhere working in some part of Apple who doesn't know anybody who works in accessibility and never gets to talk to anybody who works in accessibility and never the twain shall meet. And maybe it's a case of they should all be sitting down at a table when each new idea comes out and you know, everybody gets to speak up, including those who are in the accessibility department and say, I mean, I.

Think the thing is that like they have to be quite agile in their development and so they can't, you know, have somebody from accessibility at every single table where ideas are being discussed. No, but they can, they can, what they can do is invest in beta testers who, who use those accessibility features. And maybe that's good.

It's not just that. So what you do as a big company when you build a complex, complex system like iOS because I don't think many people appreciate how huge, how massive that thing is. It is absolutely ginormous in terms of a code base. Millions and millions and millions of lines of code. And so what you do is you build systems such that people who are using your APIs and using your systems get accessibility almost for free. Yeah, that's the only way. So that's why Microsoft also introduced uia, for example, UI automation. It was originally for testing, but they use it for accessibility as well. And if you use any of The Microsoft built UI frameworks, so WPF, WinUI 3, any of those, you get UIA support for free. You don't have to think about it when you make a button in any of those frameworks. It's accessible. Yeah, it is accessible. So that's the only way you can get it done. Because people are going to forget. And if you don't use this kind of software yourself, it doesn't matter how much you know about it, you may make a mistake. Now, in terms of iOS itself and how many issues it has or does not have, like I said, it's dependent on the device you have. It's dependent on your installation. Some apps may have the focus issues, but not iOS itself. For example, I use Duolingo. Duolingo was kind of usable before. It has now become an absolute disaster. It is almost unusable with voiceover. And it's not Apple's fault, it's Duolingo's fault. So specify where you see focus issues, because Apple has some of these as well, where you open the Mail app and then all of a sudden focus jumps to the top of the screen. That does happen. So Apple has issues, definitely. But focus issues may also be in apps and then Apple can't do anything about it.

Absolutely not.

It's more complicated than. And people don't always report it. They'll say, I updated to iOS 26 and now I have focus issues. Well, where.

Yeah, but it's a lot to ask somebody to, you know, to run through from a technical perspective, because the people you're talking to in support, you know, they want to know, will it tell me exactly what you're doing? I think for some people it's very hard for them to say, this is exactly what I'm doing. Or maybe it's because it's so random that you can't say, they can't say, you know, it's very hard to replicate. It happens now and again. But again, you know, I can't exactly remember what app I had open or. And I fully agree with you there, there is stuff that is outside of Apple's control with apps that did work and don't work anymore. And that's not Apple's fault. But I think the core, the core system should absolutely, at every release, software release, Apple should be able to say, hand on heart, everything within the iOS, even if they said everything within the iOS before you load any apps onto it, any third party apps, it works with Voiceover or works with whatever accessibility tool you need.

And I think they are saying that, yeah, they're saying that. They're telling you our operating system is fully accessible. And for some people it might be hard indeed to replicate a bug or to tell you exactly how to Replicate a problem that you're running into, but keep in mind, in order to actually find the problem in the code. So what is debugging, right? What does a developer do in order to find a problem in the code that causes a bug that has been reported? Well, what you do is you go into the software and you take the steps that you've been given in order to replicate this bug. So you go, look, okay, if I take these actions, do I actually see the problem? And if the answer is yes, what you do actually is you go to the code that performs the actions that you are triggering. And then what you do is you set something that's called a breakpoint. So you connect your coding environment to the running app, you set a breakpoint, and then you go take those steps again to replicate the bug. And what happens is when the code hits that breakpoint, everything stops. Everything stops. And it doesn't move forward until you tell it to. And then it doesn't move forward all at once. It moves forward line by line in the code, step by step.

Okay. Yeah. Identify which line is exactly the issue.

You can go line by line, and while you're going through the lines, you can check the state of your code. So you can check what values are set and all that stuff. And then you can see, well, if something is spoken incorrectly, you can go look at what the screen reader is speaking and where it's getting its information from. Then you'll be like, oh, well, maybe it's getting its information from element A, but it should be element B. And then you correct it in the code and then the bug goes away. But if you don't have those steps, as a developer, it's almost impossible to go into this process because you don't know where to set your breakpoint to go to the code and to see where in the code the problem arises. That's why they ask for it, because it's. Otherwise, how are you going to. How are you going to find the. Especially in iOS but also in JAWS. JAWS is a big, big program. How are you going to find the actual part of the code where the problem occurs?

Really well explained.

Yeah.

Professor.

Professor give you a doctor Engineer. I like going on. So no more questions. Now I'm rambling.

Anybody talking about breakpoints? Yeah. I believe you and Muhammad are going to a match in your local football. Oh, yeah. Team are playing shortly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We are, right. You know, you. You only do this when you are in a good mood. You know, that's also True. Then. Then you invite people, otherwise you are sitting alone and you don't want to be alerted. I think Anthony Gordon, west of line Gordon, you know, he's a fan of Dundee United, you know. Yeah, well, he will understand in that way. By the way, our colleague Mo Grant, you know, from finance, he is also a fan of Dundee United. So I brought them together. So perhaps Blind Gordon, he can tell me if. If Grant already contacted him because I shared.

Yeah, very good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was quite nice in a way. But so, yeah, we are doing well. Our. My, my. My local team, the. They have broken up the whole competition in four quarters and, and we did the. Four. The. The first quarter unbeaten and we are a number one. We lost only two pound points. We did.

No wonder you're inviting Mo.

Exactly, exactly, Oren. So I want to be honest as.

Well, Mo's team is also in this.

No, no, my team is one league up, so a little bit higher and they're first there. First, exactly, yeah.

So we are shaking hands.

That's good.

You're going to use the live commentary available in the stadium, presumably?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We are using the app Gazetti and that is then, then you log on to that app and then you have two commentators in the stadium and they are. Yeah, this. Yeah, do audio describing what's on the field and, and, and. And what's going on on the. On the pitch and so on. So that is quite. Yeah, yeah, yes, very cool.

Have you, have you had experience of this?

No. So I know my own club has it, but I've never been yet. I need to go, I need to go at some point. I'm just too lazy to buy the tickets. But.

Yeah, he's too busy debugging and.

So on, you know, and sit here in front of the TV and listen to commentary here. But I have been in stadiums before, only when I could see, so not as a blind person.

Oh, it'd be really interesting then.

Yeah. Because they were really interested to know what you think about this. Yeah. Because. Yeah, and you say it's really good.

It is good. It is really nice. And, and also when you are also feeling the atmosphere in the stadium and there is actually there is no delay because when you hear the referee whistling, then you hear it also in the audio app and that is quite good.

Yeah, amazing.

Yeah.

Because first we were using the local broadcaster, Radio west, but they were a couple of seconds with delay and yeah, they are also radio broadcasters, so they were. Yeah, always speaking about side effects as well.

You know, and the weather.

And the weather.

That's our purview. The weather is our purview. They don't get to talk about the weather. That's a blank guy.

We haven't talked about the weather yet, have we?

Is there. Has there been any. I presume the answer is no. But are you being charged at all for this, sir? Like, it's just. It's a free service.

It's a free service. Ado is. Is paying for it and, and. And they, of course they hire these Gasetti people and. But it. It is not so much. And. And also they only need to have or. Or you as a. As a visitor, you can download the app Gasetti and then you. You don't need to be in the stadium. You. You can also. You do it at home or where you are.

All right.

Yeah, it is Internet, so that is quite nice.

Very cool.

And just as I'm just. And I'm not suggesting for one second that football clubs start doing this, but given the quality of the AD that you're getting in the stadium, would you be willing to pay, let's say, a couple of euros?

Oh, yeah.

For that service?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that is true. Yeah, that's also. It is fair enough. Yeah, of course, it is a. It's a very good service, so why not pay for it? We, as a blind way, we always see it as a right, you know, and everything needs to be for free, etc. But for this, I would really go for it.

Yeah, I would probably also go for it. Although I would say that we need this little. These services all the time. And so if everyone starts charging for stuff like this, it's going to become.

Yeah, no, I'm just talking about.

Because, you know, audio tours in a museum are also very good and you'd also. Presumably if. If you only had to pay for that, you'd pay for that too. But.

Yeah, that's true.

You see where this is going?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And also AD on the television, you know, that's also.

Right, yeah, yeah, no, that's. So I think individually it'd be fine, but if everyone starts doing it, then. Yeah, you're looking at quite a hefty blind text there.

We are going October 17th on the Friday evening. So then. So we will give feedback after report back. Yeah, we do a report.

Brilliant.

That'd be great to hear.

Yep.

Yeah, yeah.

And they're probably also good to hear from. From Blind Gordon. Also, what was. What is here? Because they are using a different system. Not The Gasetti app. But they have a real sender in the broadcast system in this, in the stadium and then you are sitting there with a headset from the local. So that's not really public. So, so you need to be in the stadium and then you can, can receive the broadcast.

Shall I tell Mr. Stuart Lawler's story about Sky TV?

Oh, yeah. Does he have another episode?

He should make a song about this one. Yeah. Because it relates to a question I'm gonna, I'm gonna give people a shout out to. We have a system in the UK. Well, there's a system for TV, free TV available called FreeSat in the UK and in Ireland. And I'm thinking, well, I, we. I'm getting tired of paying a subscription fee for a TV that I don't really watch per month. So I'm thinking about changing to. And this will probably be only useful to listeners in the UK and in Ireland. So thinking about switching to FreeSat. But I am wondering, does the FreeSat set top box, is it accessible? Does it have any voice guidance available when you plug it in, you know, is it easy to switch the audio description on and off, etc.

Etc.

So I'd be really interested to know in terms of compliance with the European Accessibility act, has anybody got a brand new free SAP box that they are using and watching using for TV and would they recommend as in live tv? As in live tv because it does away with your monthly subscription. Basically, if you've got a dish on your roof and you've got a free SAP box, you can watch a fair few terrestrial channels like the BBC channels and ITV and Channel 4 in the UK and over here you can watch RTE and the other channels that we have, Tikara and Virgin and that. So I'm just really interested to know, is anybody using freesat? But I shall move on and Stuart, I think I'm going to tell it anyway, but. And I know you listen to the podcast, I'm going to tell it anyway and you think you can say I could tell it's last night, but, but Stuart and I've been. So we've, we've been talking about this for a few months and one of us was going to jump cancel our sky subscription first and it happened to be Stuart because I wasn't on the ball, so to speak. So Stuart, this is Stuart's story and I hope I tell it right. So he rang sky have a great system where they have an accessibility line where you can ring if you need accessibility and you get directly through to Somebody. So he rang the phone number for the accessibility and he said he wanted to cancel his sky subscription. And they said, okay, we'll have to put you on to the cancellation team. So I said, okay. So they put them on to the cancellation team. And he said, I want to cancel my subscription. And the person said on the other end of the phone, oh, that's, that's a pity. What's, what's up with your tv? What's. Why do you not. Why do you want to cancel? And he said, and I think I hopefully have a right. He said, oh my. I have Sky Stream, which is basically the app version of the set top box. And he said, well, it was Sky Stream. It's not playing out the audio description On Demand. On the On Demand service.

Yeah.

So that's the playback service.

Which they've never done.

Which they've never done. Okay. And I said, oh, sorry. So you're having an audio problem. Which you're. No, no, I'm not having an audio problem. It's. The audio description will not play out on the Demand servers and on live play out. It doesn't work. It's. Again, it's like one of these bugs. It's random. You know, sometimes he has to, he has to come out of the TV show he's watching, relaunch the app, and then the audio description will play for maybe 10 or 15 minutes. And then he might have to come out of the app again. But it says, oh, sorry, sir. Okay, well, just one second. And we put, you know, so he had to, he was put on hold and then somebody else came on and said, hello, sir, you want to cancel? Yes. And you're having a problem with your On Demand, Is that right? No, I'm not having. Because we can, we can send somebody around to fix your On Demand service so that you can watch the On Demand. No, no, there's nothing wrong with the On Demand servers. I can see the on Demand servers.

No, you cannot see them.

But what I can't do is. What I can't do is play the audio description.

Yeah, sorry.

I'm just molding on here. What I can't do is play the audio description. Oh, sorry. Okay, so you're having a problem with the audio. So you're having a problem with the audio. No, I'm not having a problem with the audio. It's with the audio description. I said, okay, sir. Sorry about that. So, so third time, come back and said, oh, sorry. Yes. So if you, if you go to your, your setup, your, your box and, and you, I think like if you, you know, close the app and then we can get you your on demand service so you can watch your on demand channel. He said, I'm not having a problem. Okay, well, well. So I think I call you back.

Mr. And I can repair the demand.

You know, come to the end of the story. Come to the end of the story. So eventually comes back to the third or fourth person and they said, we're terribly sorry, Sorry, sir, we cannot fix your on demand issue. You cannot fix your audio description issue, even though we don't know what it is. But actually they probably did. They were just acting the maggot. What we do suggest you do, rather than cancel your subscription with sky tv, why don't you keep the subscription, the basic subscription for your €30amonth and listen to music instead?

Oh, no way. They did not. Oh my God, that's awful.

I can listen to Spotify for a third the price.

Yeah. And keep paying the.

No, I keep paying his subscription.

The cheek of them, Stuart.

I hope I told that. Right.

He can. He can send us an email. Then we have an email again.

Can he not like unsubscribe, like on the web?

No, I don't think so.

They wouldn't let him. Well, he could force it, though.

Well, they were trying. I think the idea was they. And I think he's right. I think they knew exactly what he was talking about, but they were just trying to hold on to him so that he wouldn't cancel his subscription.

Oh my God, that's desperate.

And they just kept putting him on darkness.

That's bad.

How frustrating though. Either that or they just don't know what AD is.

Well, the accessibility line does not know what AD is.

Well, no, in fairness, there wasn't the accessibility line. They. He went on to the accessibility line, which is. Which gets you through to an actual human being from quicker than it does.

To actually do the queuing.

And then.

But these sound like machines. This, these people did not sound like human beings.

Yeah.

Wow. Anyway, that's our show, folks. Blind guys [email protected]. please send love to hear your voice, voices or your emails and we'll see it two weeks time. Yo.

Bye bye. Take care.