#158: Snowflake training with a woke guide dog!

Welcome to Blind Guy's Chat, where Oren O'Neill—

Hello!

Jan Bloem—

Hello!

And Mohammed Lashir—

Hi there!

Talk about the A to Z of life.

Well, hello, ladies and gentlemen, and you're very welcome to episode 158. Thank you very much for joining us.

Wow. So 158 already.

Yeah. 6 years. My God. Hey. Thanks, Claudia. That was very good.

We hope you're keeping warm, folks, because I'll tell you one thing. The weather has turned here in Ireland.

Winter.

Oh yeah. Winter is on the way.

We just skipped autumn. We just went straight to winter.

It's cold. It is cold.

It was yesterday night. It was cold in the stadium. My God! But I was wearing my nice warm jacket and my and I had my hood on and it was and we won from Sparta. Hey hey yay! You are so true here, Ben.

Tell us about your warm jacket because I've been seeing a jacket being advertised on YouTube that's talking about it's it's full of um electric snow, you know, duck feathers and it's supposed to be It was very light but yet very warm.

Yeah, this one is also very, uh, uh, spongy in a way, or, or bubbling. Yeah, or, or, or donsy, how you call it, because that's what the kids love as well. And they— because I was really wearing an old jacket, that's what the kids told me. So I had to renew that. You need to renew, you need to get a not such a— and I, uh, Old jacket and whatever. So I'm now really hip, and it's green, and it's and very warm. So I like it very much. Yeah. But it has a really a miss because I love internal pockets with a zip. Yes. You know.

Yes.

And that was missing. So so that was the only. But but I fell in love with the jacket so so immediately. So I could not let it hang. So now but now I have. This shoulder pocket thing, you know what you can wear. So I now have that in. So now I don't need an internal pocket anymore. So

you talking about a man bag by any chance?

Jan,

is it a man bag that you're talking about?

Got a man bag?

Oh yeah, they're great. I have one too when I go on holiday.

I don't know what you mean. Well, it is it is just like you have your revolver, you know. Oh,

like a holster.

Or the holster, in a way. No, it's—

I think, I think it is a man bag. It's one of those bags that you put on your shoulder. Yeah, but instead of doing it on the same shoulder like most women do, oh, cross— it goes across your body.

Oh

yeah, it's a crossbody bag.

Yeah, crossbody bag.

Yeah, courier bag.

I have one of those.

Yeah, and I love it. It's really nice.

Excuse me, what's the difference between that, like, in a backpack?

No, a backpack.

A backpack you put on your back. Yes,

yes, I appreciate, I appreciate that, Mr. Smarty Pants.

Well, number 158. Yay! Oh no, we're 58. Yeah,

well, it's, it's smaller than a backpack and easier to get to. Like, for example, if I travel, I carry my passport in that little bag.

Yeah.

And you can just zip it open, you pick, you pull it out. And bam, you have your passport. If you put it in your backpack, you have to take off your backpack.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so do you use it every day just for like, you know, your keys and your phone?

No, that's not, not really what I use because I still love my, uh, pockets in my jeans, you know, my, uh, so that's where I keep my, uh, my, uh, my keys and my phone, etc. But when I travel like Mo, then I have also my passport there and my boarding pass and, uh, whatever, all my bank passes, etc. And that is quite—

tends to fill up with clutter quite a lot. Like, mine is completely full and I haven't a clue with what. I have to clean it out.

It's just like a ladybug, you know. They're also—

Gently now. Yes, gentle, careful.

They're also full with all kinds of nonsense that nobody knows.

Female listeners very cross with you, Jan.

Really? I, I was not aware of it.

Rosalie bought one

Of the well, oh my god! I see doesn't listen. But she bought, I think, couple of years ago, one very, very expensive handbag. You know, from Sir Shorten brand or whatever. I don't know. You know, I am. I'm totally not into those brands. But but she was really and and you know, it is small, but but she loves it. Oh my god! But it's always full. That's true. We were last a couple of weeks ago. We went to the theater or to Harry Harry Potter. And then you know, I was I was having.

The Harry Potter one good?

Yeah, it was very good. Yeah, he didn't listen to the show, I think. Yeah, no, it was really good. But, but, but no, it was not a musical because they did— they do not sing.

Oh no.

Yeah, yeah, that's typical. And, and a very little dancing, but the, the, the, uh, dancing wasn't good. Yeah, but, but the tricks, you know, it was really, really nice. They, uh, they were Yeah, doing all kind of tricks and the patronomas or the experiencers. Yeah, the patrono. How is called it?

Just in case you're listening to episode 157, folks, I can tell you no, you're not. You're actually listening to episode 158. Although we do seem to be talking exactly what we're talking about episode 157. Mr.

Sound Producer, you already did.

Did Jan also make the same mistakes in the spells and stuff?

Yeah, yeah, correct. It was almost a one-on-one copy.

Oh, good, good. Thank you, Jan. Thank you. Thank you for. catching me up. I, I did not— but when I do it for the first time, I was on a cruise.

Oh, you were on a cruise?

I can be—

well, okay, tell us more about the cruise. Tell us more about the cruise.

Welcome to episode 158, everyone. And, uh, and it was quite a large ship. And one of the things that, you know, you realize— was it Love Boat? Was it what?

The Love Boat?

Too young to know.

I was done with my parents, so I'm too young for

that. Oh, really? The Love Boat was a television series many years ago.

Oh really? Oh my God, I'm too getting too old. Yeah. Hello. Anyway, come on, you're on the boat.

I said I was with my parents, so I hope not.

Oh nah, you never know.

You know, I love both with my parents, but, but, um, and, and my sister and my brother. But I, um, yeah, it was quite a big ship, um, and we went on a Caribbean cruise, so Aruba, Bonaire, Curaçao, the Dominican Republic, and Jamaica, leaving from Miami. It was a pretty nice cruise, although I have to say that those islands, except for the Dominican Republic and Jamaica, but the ABC Islands are very small. The beaches are very nice too.

Lovely.

On Bonaire, I actually saw the slave houses, which is what the slaves used to be kept in that worked in the salt fields, in the salt mines. And oh boy, like they were one and a half meter by one and a half meter. The doors were tiny. I had to like almost crawl to get in, and they used to be filled up with nine people each night.

One and a half meter by one and a half meter, nine people. Oh my goodness!

You'd have to be standing up. That's crazy.

Yes, like you'd have to sleep almost sitting up or standing up. Gosh, it was crazy.

Desperate.

So I— yeah, so that was very impressive. And, um, I, you know, the islands were nice, the beaches were good, the weather was good. Uh, the ship is— was pretty big, uh, not one of those extremely massive ships with amusement parks and stuff on board, but, um, we did have a swimming pool and I had a lot of fun being there.

But what about getting around?

So I will say that when you are on vacation with a lot of sighted folks, at least I find myself doing that. I don't try to get around myself a lot. It just— it— I don't know, it's—

Requires a lot of energy.

It requires energy, but also you're like, uh, I'll wait those 5 extra minutes for the others. And frankly, they waited more on me than me on them.

And was there internet on board?

That was for a price that I was not willing to pay.

No, because that is via satellite, of course.

Yeah, so I think that's Starlink. Yeah, and it was, I believe, $260 for one device. And I'm like, do I need internet that much? And my answer was nope, I do not in fact need internet that much. So I, I passed, and I didn't have internet for while on the boat, because when I was on the islands, of course I did. Jamaica is gorgeous, by the way, with all those— Okay, I believe you. Jungle. And yeah, it's beautiful, um, but it is, it is very touristy. Okay, okay. So,

and did you go out in, in groups, uh, when you, uh, uh, arrived in harbor, or did you go with the family? Do you— did you go in, or, uh, in cohort?

No, we went mostly with the family, but then with the family in groups too. Okay. I mean, you could get a private tour, but typically we just got a tour in one of those buses.

Oh yeah,

yeah, sure. Those tours tend to be very expensive, that the, uh, the ones

that the ship

organized.

Yeah, those are expensive. So if you get off at the harbor, then you typically find tours that are multitudes cheaper.

Yeah. And were you sailing in nighttime or also in daytime?

No, we had some sea days, so—

Oh, sea days.

Oh, that's nice. Well, I mean, they were necessary to get to the islands, but yeah, yeah, yeah. So it wasn't just all day at sea.

Yeah. And, and did you see also nice, um, uh, um, uh, whales or dolphins, you know, jumping all over the— No, no. Was it— no? Okay.

No, at least I don't remember anyone talking about any dolphins.

Okay.

And to be honest, like, in the Caribbean it's so hot, whenever I was outside I would jump into the pool.

Wow.

It was unbearably warm.

And quite humid.

And humid, yeah. So it was 30 degrees, so not the biggest disaster in the world, but then it's very humid, so the sun, yeah, just sort of beats down on you.

Okay.

Just go into the pool and not get out until the sun goes down.

And, and how many people were on the ship, Mo? Is it crowded then, or how— give for, for— yeah, is it— can you give an estimate?

I think there's room for 3,000-something people. And there was 1,039 crew on that ship, the ship that I was on. It wasn't extremely crowded because of course the ship is built for it. Um, but also I don't think the ship was completely full because in your hut there's actually room for 4 people, and not everyone obviously was in a hut with 4 people.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't think it was that full, but it wasn't, it wasn't very crowded either because the ship is massive.

It's how many floors?

Uh, 16 or 17.

God, it's a flat, you know.

But the kind of bottom 3 or 4 are all for staff, and that's all crew.

Yes, that's all crew. And then from deck 5, you have a restaurant and you have all sorts of things. But yeah, no, there, there's a lot of decks.

Yeah, and cinema and, um, a casino and theater.

There's a casino, there's a theater. There wasn't a cinema, but they would sometimes have movies on deck. So in the evenings, they would have movies on deck.

Oh,

um,

fun.

So that was outside. You would sit outside and listen.

And dance parties as well, Mr. Mo?

Oh yeah, there were galas and there were like deck parties and all that stuff.

Oh la la. Yeah.

So would you do it again?

Uh,

That's a no.

I'm not sure I would do it again. Yeah, I might. It depends. It depends on where it goes.

Yeah.

But, you know, at some point you've seen the ship and— Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

I mean, they tried to keep it interesting, but nothing they did really held my interest as much.

Oh.

And I don't know, I I don't know if I would do it again. I might, like, if it was like, for example, a pole cruise or something interesting that I wouldn't, I wouldn't easily go to. It's a nice way to visit a lot of smaller places, I will say that. So for example, you know, nothing against the ABC Islands, but you've seen the ABC Islands in 1 hour. And then you've taken your time, right? They're small, small islands. So you go there on vacation, it's just— it's a beach vacation and maybe some excursions onto the sea to see, for example, coral reefs and stuff like that. But there's nothing much to do on the island itself. There's some shopping. And

Bonaire is known for surfing, isn't it? Tobias Vinius always went for surfing there.

Yeah, you can surf, but again, yeah, yeah, but you know that You know that it's it's an island, and once you've seen on what's on the island, you've seen what's on the island.

Hey, but if you're interested with a guy from Terschelling, yeah, they're also an island in the Netherlands.

So it's exactly the same thing.

Oh, no, no, no, no, you know.

Yeah, I know. You know, you know.

I know. Yeah, I know. So yeah.

So I think if you're not, what I'm hearing is if you're not into beaches and you're not into shopping, then really it might not be the holiday for you.

Well, I am into beaches. I'm less into shopping, but shopping is fine, I guess. I mean, it's not that big of a deal. But the thing is, like, it's a nice way to visit those islands and know what they are. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's it. Yeah.

You can check, you know, you can tick it off. You've been there.

You've been there. And now if you're interested to go back, you know what to expect. It's beaches. It's You know, and I might go back. Like when I was in Aruba swimming there, I'm like, well, I could stay here for 2 weeks, maybe even 3.

Yeah.

And enjoy myself a lot because the beaches are very nice. They're very nice. So it's not like that's something that I wouldn't do again. But then on a ship like that, I don't know if there are many other places that are like that that I would like to visit, that I would like to go on a cruise for.

Yeah,

that's more about like, for example, a Mediterranean cruise. Well, maybe, I mean, maybe there are islands like that on the Mediterranean, but if I go, for example, to Barcelona, I want to be there 2 or 3 or 4 days to explore the city. I don't want to be there for a couple of hours.

No, that's true.

Like on a cruise, it's, it's a way different type of vacation, uh, I think. And, and, and you would have to like The ship a lot for it to be worth it. I think you guys went on a cruise. Would you go back? Would you do it again?

Well, we have, but it's mainly. But in fairness, in unfairness, no, in unfairness, in unfairness, no.

I'm so confused now. Yeah, I'm very confused. Unfairness.

I think, I think Clode maybe, and I'm not. Sorry for speaking, you know, for putting words in your mouth. I'm used to it. Putting words in my mouth, but I don't think you enjoy it as much as I do. And the reason I enjoy it, it's not so much the— I agree with you about, yeah, you're not spending long enough in these, uh, islands or the city where you're, you're, uh, visiting, but I just love the movement, the motion of the boat. I like to be on the move all the time.

I see.

So like, if— honestly, honestly, if the, if the boat, if the cruise ship didn't stop anywhere, I would be happy.

Ah, there you go. And that's— I think there are a lot of—

yeah,

there are a lot of people like that because the food you get is— there's plenty of food. Yeah, there is some entertainment that if you like that, then, you know, it's all good. So If you like— that's what I'm saying. Like, if you like the ship, if you like the whole idea of being on a ship, then yeah, a cruise is something that you're gonna do over and over again because it's awesome. And then you, you also, like, as a little bonus, you get to visit all these places.

Yeah.

But if, if the point is to visit all these places,

yeah,

then a cruise is not the way to do it.

It's the mindset then.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I agree with you.

Yeah, that's, that's what I'm saying.

Yeah,

thank you for clarifying. Thank you for helping me clarify.

I mean, it does make it very easy to see those places, but you're not really seeing those places. It's like a— what was the name of the— Reader's Digest used to issue books, but they were like a shortened version of the book, you know, rather than the actual book. It's like that. You don't really get to see the place. You just get to kind of dip your toe in and get a vague idea, but you don't really get to see it. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

But it's, I mean, it's, you know, for some people it really suits them. So I don't know.

Now, next trip, I think, uh, Oren and, and Claudia, you went to Barcelona or was it something else?

No, we went very close to hand. We went to London.

London. Ah, London. Tiddly diddy is the place to be. Yeah.

It wasn't a holiday though. It was a work. It was a work trip for both of us.

Poor guys.

It was good though. We, we had, we had a, I mean, it was busy, wasn't it, Oren?

It was very busy, yeah, which is one of the things that I'm not crazy about because really the hall we were in, well, there were lots of other little side halls, but when everybody was coming out for coffee, it was—

What's the conference?

It was called Languages in the Media. So it's about localization of subtitling and audio description and sign language.

Access services, yeah.

It's quite academic, so it's a lot of universities or coming along to speak about their research that they're doing, and some of them are looking for assistance from broadcasters and suppliers and what have you.

There's a

lot

of AI input?

A lot of talk about AI, yeah. And very much people, you know, people were— there were some, and I mean maybe 3 demonstrations of AI for audio description, But the general, I would say, and maybe, Plota, you might think differently, but I would say the general summary or the general view about AI, particularly when it comes to audio description, is, as I've said well before now, it's nowhere near ready to be used in a broadcast sense. It may be able to be used in other areas and that, but— Not yet. not—

I think some of the people were a bit more positive. Not— let me put it this way— not quite as negative as your approach would be. They were a bit more optimistic. They were a bit more, look, this is something that's going to happen and we just need to make sure it happens properly.

Well, I'm not being negative about it. I mean, it is— I am positive and it is going to happen. That's the thing. But I mean, people— there were people trying to sell their wares and say, you know, we can produce AI AD for your company. But the reality is they can't, because the whole question of quality and what do you audio describe, what do you leave out in audio description, that still really hasn't reached the researchers and the developers. Mm-hmm. And there needs to be a bigger conversation with the actual users than there does just developers developing, or thinking they're developing AD. for the blind and visually impaired, and that— I'm negative about that because they're not really engaging enough with the users. Okay. But the worst part of it, the worst part of the whole thing, apart from the noise in the conference hall—

It was overwhelmingly noisy, actually.

Overwhelming. And— but the worst part was we had just landed and we were going Dumping our bags in the hotel and then we were running to the BBC for another meeting. And on the way, uh, we were passing by a group of, uh, tourists. All of a sudden, uh, my cane became trapped.

Oh, and you did not bring your spare one with you?

No,

no,

snapped in 2 it did.

And what really, really annoyed Both myself and Clodagh was the gentleman that broke my cane.

Yeah.

Stopped, turned around, stared at us for about a minute, and then just shrugged his shoulders and walked away.

Oh.

Didn't say sorry, didn't check if Oren was okay.

Did you, did you talk to him?

No, he did—

I was busy looking after Oren. I was like, are you okay? Because I wasn't sure exactly what had happened. And then I saw the cane completely Broken into.

So he bumped into Oran and then broke the cane.

I think he stood on the cane. I think I'm not sure exactly how it happened.

That's likely what happened.

Yeah. You were pulling his legs, possibly Oran.

Well, I don't know.

I don't know. Maybe he was pulling my leg.

Yeah.

Anyway, look, it was a bit of a disaster.

Yeah.

He managed like we had to go to the BBC. We had that meeting. We went had to go from there to the. theater. We went to a show that night, and we asked the theater people for tape, strong, strong tape to wrap it up, and they got that for us, which was amazing. But it wasn't effective because it was wobbly, so it just, it wasn't usable. So the following morning, instead of going to the beginning of the conference, we got in a taxi and went to the RNIB, and Oren got a new cane, but it's not his favorite.

No, it's not. It was not easy.

What did you buy? What did you buy?

have in stock in the RNIB is Ambitec.

Ah, yeah.

But he managed to sell me an Ambitec.

No jab.

No jab. No jab.

Oh, the no jab. Right.

So

it's got like a spring-loaded thing.

Yeah, spring-loaded thing at the bottom, spring-loaded thing at the top, and it's supposed to protect you from jabbing, from hurting your stomach and that. But I would say, as I said to somebody in the conference, It's a bit like moving back into the Stone Age, because when you've got this beautiful Swarovski cane, yeah, it's, it's, it's just a beautiful piece of kit, light to use, and you come back to this thing, uh, yeah, it's a severe—

Is it not, uh, part of the insurance? Did you wear your eye for the travel insurance or something, or?

Gosh, that's a really good question. I don't know, but would a cane be included in that? I have no idea.

Of course, of course. Why not?

It's

yours. It was about £100 sterling, which I thought was quite expensive. Oren did also get a— I don't know if you guys have heard of this, you probably have— it's an LED that clips onto the top of the cane that shines down the length of the cane so that if you're using your cane at nighttime It makes it easier for sighted people to see it.

I've heard about

it. Oh yeah.

Maybe that one of those that broke your cane in 2 would have seen you.

Well, it was pure daylight when he did that. So I don't know. I don't know if the LED would have helped him at all.

It's a joke.

I know. I look, it was unfortunate. It was just really— but yeah, for sure. Bring it. Do you always, do you guys always travel with a spare cane? Yeah.

No, I never do.

90% of the time I do because I had also this occasion a couple of times. Twice it broke on a trip. That's how that was. Wow.

Yeah, I was in a similar situation.

Yep.

Right.

You know, I had it also once on a holiday trip with, with the family. Yeah. And then I ended up with a broomstick, you know. It's even heavier than an AmbuTech. Oh my God. Yeah, I could really hit everyone.

The other time, Jan, I think you ended up with a branch, right? A branch?

Yes.

Yeah, also.

Gosh.

And then on a broomstick, hey, hey, goody up, go, you know. And then I went up and flew away with my Nimbus 2000.

We haven't mentioned is why I was using a cane, uh, and I was just gonna say it is quite unusual, even though, you know, I was holding on to Clodagh. Yeah, I, I still like to have the cane. I know that you don't, um, Mo, but I like to have the cane just out to my right, just, just in case I was to bump into anything or We just, you know, it was like tip off something. But it is quite— it's quite, I wouldn't say frightening, but it is unusual to suddenly not have anything in your right hand. You know, it's a very weird feeling. But the reason we didn't, I was using a cane, apropos of nothing, but Larry has just retired to his new home. Oh, poor guy.

Oh, he left you two weeks ago. Two weeks ago.

So this trip was oh, this trip was supposed to be a little bit of a distraction. Yeah. And then this you know unfortunately this thing happened.

Happens.

But yes, he's living his poor lady. He's living his what will be his he's having a great time best life apparently. Well, he's having can sail. So he's very nice.

It's a lovely seaside town in the south of Ireland, and it's on the coast.

Well, wishing Larry a fantastic retirement.

I think a chef is jealous because he has to stay here, you know.

Yeah, and he's having a great time. He's going to the beach nearly every day, and oh, his, his new mammy is a swimmer, so, um, maybe he'll get over it because he normally In the sea, he normally goes up only to his chest and then he runs out again. So, oh yeah, we'll see. He might take, he might take to swimming.

Maybe the funniest thing so far that, uh, that we've heard, and in fairness, they've been very good to keep us up to date, but he's not allowed— and he was allowed on our couch in the sitting room, in our living room, but this lady and her husband have a, a lovely couch in their living room, but they have another couch in the kitchen which Larry is allowed on, and that's fine, but he's not allowed on, on the, the other couch. And she texted one morning to say—

Is he able to open doors? Was the question.

All right. And we said, no, he's not really able to open doors. She said, because it's funny, she said, I'm pretty sure I found some hairs on the good couch this morning.

And I closed the doors.

You closed the doors. So Larry— and Larry does bop his head, just bangs it.

Smashes the door with his head.

So he obviously decided, I don't like this couch. couch anymore. I'm

going into the other room.

Oh

yeah, while they're upstairs having a sleep. So, uh, yeah, but he's living a good life.

He's having a great time.

So we have said— but tell us, that moves us on to how's— how are you getting on with Dries? And how is Chef getting on with Dries as well?

Yeah, yeah, long story short, well, it, it goes very well, I must say. Um, um, Dries arrived, um, it's now Sunday So Friday a week ago. So this is his second weekend in the family, the family house. And yeah, Chef is— they play with each other a lot. And, but yeah, Dries is from March 2025. So he is quite— yeah, he is very young. And as I mentioned it also last time, he is— he's tall. He is 70 centimeters high. And Chef is 60, so that is 10 centimeters. And he has— Chef is 26 kilos and Dries is 36. Wow. You know, so, so, um, whenever— and, and, and Dries is jealous and, and quite dominant in a way. So when we are, we are playing or when I'm touching, uh, Chef and— or when, when he wants to have some attention, And then Dries sees it, wham, you know, he's jumping, coming over. So, but he is very, yeah, nice to cuddle with, you know. So, oh, he is really, yeah. So he is really adorable.

Affectionate.

Yeah, affectionate. But also like Chef, but yeah, Dries, yeah, likes that as well. So family-wise, it goes very well. The kids love him. Although in the beginning, Tycho was a little bit scared. Gosh, what— this is a big, uh, you know, dog. Because he is quite— yeah, he is, uh, impressive, you know. He's tall.

Yeah.

He is quite present in the room because— did I tell you when he can just put his head on the dinner table, you know?

Oh, he can, can he?

Yeah. So yeah, that is quite— and now, Mo, you know, also when I'm, when I'm working with my laptop in, in the, in the living room on the dinner table, Then he puts his head between my under under my axle, you know, under my elbow. Then he comes and looks at the screen, you know. Hey, what's up? You know.

What you doing?

Yeah, what you doing? Hey, so he then but he is nice and then so shy. He is very cute in a way. Working-wise or when you go the first weekend and days, I was not allowed to. go put him directly in the, in the harness. You know, that is really step by step. And first I only went out with the, yeah, with the leash. And then he is, he is trained with the click method. I don't know if you are aware of it, or Mo, are you aware of the click method?

Yeah, I'm not. You've got a clicker.

Yeah, a clicker. So every— and then you need to praise or a positive—

Positive reinforcement, I think.

Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you— it is not the way that my trainer explained it. They train Dries to stay in the middle of the road, and then whenever he is moving to the left boundary or the right boundary, you need to be so nicer than the right and 5, or the right boundary or the left boundary, He is coming to you. So in a positive way, you need to attract his attention and then to keep him like that. So it's not— in the past, Chef was really treated or trained the other way. So to, yeah, with punishment in a way. When he was going off the road, then he was pulled out by again, you know, come on, this is so. But now you need to Do it, yeah, positive, you know, with some sweet, etc. And yeah, I'm

what kind of snowflake training is this?

Mo, I am also not. I'm totally not used to this woke thing, you know.

Snowflake, yeah,

yeah. I like that expression, Mo. That's really good. But so, so I'm also. But but yeah, when he is trained the the the yeah the whole system with that, so. You need to somehow cooperate in this way and also continue working like that. But it is very effective, I must say. But you need to have yourself also a brainwash and also be more positive and be positive treating, etc. It goes very well. So also when he is pulling too tough on the leash, Then, yeah, you should not pull him back, bang, you know, and then, no, this is the— no, then you should stay quiet and stand still, and then he should realize, oh, I think I did something wrong, you know? Okay, and then the next time you should, before he is having the end of the leash, you know, when he starts, you need to keep him alert. Hey, hey, Dries, not so fast, you know, quiet, quiet, or keep his attention and whatever. But, you know, also when he sees a cat, for example, bang, you know, I'm at the end of— I'm pulled off to the left side of the street, you know. But that is— so, but then, yeah, it is also a sighted way. So he's trained also to, yeah, to not react much on cats. But yeah, it is an instinct, you know, also with dogs. Yeah, it's still a dog. As we all know. Yeah, that's also. But it goes very well. So it takes time, but now he is also— yeah, we are walking together with the leash now 4 times a day. And that works out quite well now. And we started to work in the harness last week on the Thursday and Friday. And this weekend I did it on my own. Really? And I must say it is easier than I expected it. I fell in the same, um, yeah, traps also with, with Chef at the first time that I got, uh, yeah, get lost sometimes, you know, when— because he is then— because when you're spinning around, then I lost also. Do I now go to the east or to the west? Or— yeah, and, and, and I'm living in an area with, um, crossings with the same, at the same layer. So, so, so not with real distinguished pavements, etc. So then it is a little bit— so you easily cross then a street or you are easily somewhere else. Yeah. So then, so I am, I'm using Lazarello a lot these days. And then with the Explore mode that it will tell me where I am, you know, automatically. And what, what crossing do I approach or what crossing is after? Yeah. Yeah, behind me, and that is quite helpful. You can see his face. Yeah, yeah. So, but he is good in the harness, so I'm really positive, but it takes time and it is exhausting. I'm really tired in the nighttime. My God.

'Cause you're having to focus so hard, I guess.

Yeah, yeah, that is really what I experience, and it's— but it is very nice, but still, Chef is a— That was heartbreaking when we went for the first time to the to the to the to the supermarket. You know, with then chef was on his own because Chantal was working and the kids were at school. And then he was oh my God! He was oh my God! Where are you going? Oh my God! And then also when we came home. Uh, uh, you know, 50 meters, then I, I, I hope he heard us and then he started barking again, you know, because I, I hope he did not do it the whole time. The

whole time. Oh gosh. Well, your neighbors will tell you, I'd say, if so.

Yeah.

But,

but I didn't dare to ask yet.

When he, yeah. When he sees you going off with Dries, does he get sad that he's not going?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But in, in the weekend, then— Does he have difficulty putting the harness on himself? Sometimes, right?

Yeah.

He was just tired of it.

Yeah, that is what Chef really had, you know, or still has. But he still wants to, yeah, he doesn't want to be left alone, you know?

Yeah, of course not.

That's understandable.

Yeah, yeah. In the last week, I still took Chef out to go to the supermarket, et cetera, in the harness. And he was easily doing that. And then, my God, it is such an easy relief, you know, to go on the— Yeah. You know, it's the same way if you, yeah, when you have new shoes, Shoes, you know they are all a little bit hurting. Yeah, yeah. And then when you put your old shoes on, you know, you know you walk away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was that's quite funny. Perhaps some people have yeah. I like to know from Nora. Yeah, Nora from you know she has her I think also new dog. Yeah, new dog.

So yeah, that's your funny year, is it?

I think there is in Boston. We'd love to know how you're getting on. Yeah.

Alright. Do we have any emails?

We do. Yes. We got a couple of emails. We got one yesterday from a chap. Now, you must excuse my pronunciation because I don't know. It's S-A-C-H-I-N. So Sachin, maybe? Gupta?

Yeah. I would say Sachin or Sachin, maybe.

Sachin, maybe?

Yeah.

You must tell us. I don't know. I do apologize if I've made it sound exactly not what it is. But anyway, so this is for you guys. Hi, Oren, Yan, and Mohammed. I'm Sachin. A solo developer and the maker of Vani Dialer. V-A-N-I Dialer. I listened to episode 157 and really enjoyed the easy back and forth. Well, we're very good at the nonsense.

Talking nonsense.

Yeah, we are.

Yeah, simple.

Vani announces who is calling and lets you answer, decline, or switch to speaker just by saying a word with no touch. It's fully TalkBack accessible, including a lift-to-type dial pad. Android only. So if any of you use Android, I'd love to give you a free lifetime premium plus 5 lifetime passes for your listeners. Uh, so that's exciting, isn't it? No script, honest reviews welcome, honest views welcome. Vanny has no login, so if you reply with a WhatsApp number, I'll unlock it directly. Just search Vanny Dialer on On Google Play. Now, our issue here is that none of you guys are Android, right? No. None of you use Android.

No.

So I'm wondering if five of our listeners would fancy getting these lifetime passes and and giving it a bash, seeing what you think.

So I think we would love your feedback. I think.

Yeah, so I don't know what the best way of doing it is, but maybe just drop an email to [email protected].

We can do a draw, you know. Yeah,

yeah, yeah, exactly. That's a good idea. Yeah, our first 5 in or something. I'm not sure.

I think so.

And we'll see, whatever is the fairest. We think if we get loads in, we'll do it as a draw. Yeah, and but if you're interested, if you're an Android user and you want to try this new dialer, then I think that, you know, it would be good. It could be good fun.

Yeah. And also a feature suggestion to make it available on iOS would be nice.

There's another email then from Murat, an independent developer behind Outbrick, O-U-T-B-R-I-C-K, a slide and match puzzle for iPad and iPhone with no timer. I'm looking for candid feedback on how it communicates the board, the layout, through VoiceOver. Are the spoken elements and actions to slide or swap pieces enough to make the play understandable? I'd value your perspective, and any gaps you spot could make a useful future conversation about spatial games and screen readers. The App Store page, VoiceOver guide, and press room are available. I'll put this in the show notes. There's no expectation of a review or endorsement, but if you have any thoughts, let us know. So what I'll do is I'll pop those links in the show notes, and if anyone wants to have a look, you can give us your response, or you can respond directly to Morag through his— through the app.

Yeah, very good.

Thank you very much.

Great. Very good. Okay, good.

Well, thanks, Clodagh.

Thank you.

That's it for the show. Thank you very much for listening, ladies and gentlemen. Don't forget, the email is [email protected]. And we'll see you in two weeks' time.

Okay, bye bye.

Bye.